No vaccines for healthy 12-15 Yr olds

[Wellbythebloodyhell]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-will-not-be-recommended-for-healthy-children-aged-12-to-15-government-advisers-say-12398444

Is anyone else glad this potential decision has been taken away? I was very much undecided about vaccinating my older dc and now feel a bit of a weight has been lifted now its not something I need to consider.

I find it interesting how COVID has exposed both the best in us all and the worst in us all, and also the weakness of our cherished western ‘individualism’, which many cannot separate from selfishness.

Even those who try not to be selfish for themselves think it absolutely fine to be as grasping as possible on behalf of their children-as if ‘doing the best for one’s own child’ was axiomatically a good thing.

I cannot understand why children should not be given the vaccine to protect society (and, by virtue of that, other less well off children).

If there were a virus that targeted children only, I don’t imagine we would be at a place where childless adults would be applauded for not getting vaccinated, as the ‘risk to them was less than the risk of the vaccine’. There would be massive moral suasion (if not compulsion) for all adults to be vaccinated.

And, if there were a virus that only targeted women, we would encourage men and boys to be vaccinated too….,oh, hold on, there is. How many are getting their sons vaccinated against HPV aged 12 or 13??

It is a very skewed moral compass that thinks protecting one’s own child from a risk smaller than being struck by lightning is not worth saving 10s or 100s of thousands of adult lives, and also keeping schools open, vital for vulnerable children.

I am hoping we will start the 12-15 program as soon as possible and, ultimately, including COVID among the normal childhood vaccinations.

If the view now is that everyone is going to get covid it makes sense to only vaccinate those likely to be affected by it. Reducing spread becomes pointless if it’s inevitable anyway

Bear as much as posts on this don't have much impact - either way - 16 year old has had vaccine and I’m sure some posts have said insane etc but it’s not relevant to me. Your situation is very concerning and not ignored though. Can I ask how old he is? You may have mentioned it.

But re pp and individualism I do think children have faced harms for the pandemic disproportionate to their risk and they are the opposite of not acting for society. On this though I’m very glad JCVI set the criteria they do. Any pressure from others suggesting it should be for other groups first I find off putting.

perhaps some of us just feel we’d like to take our chances with natural infection.

Why on earth wouldn't you still be able to do this if the vaccine went forwards? Some of us would rather not have a disease we don't have to have, and personal choice would let us both do what we felt was right.

I agree with @TheReluctantPhoenix . Spot on post. If you're worried that other people may judge you if you choose not to take a vaccination, maybe it's time to unpick why you don't want to own your choice.

@AlecTrevelyan006

If the view now is that everyone is going to get covid it makes sense to only vaccinate those likely to be affected by it. Reducing spread becomes pointless if it’s inevitable anyway

Except vaccinated people have much better outcomes when they do get it, and don't strain the NHS.

I guess it’s scary for them, or inconvenient, or they’re just worn out by the pandemic and can’t take any more things to worry about.

Yes, I think we all have strained psychological defences now.

@AlecTrevelyan006

If the view now is that everyone is going to get covid it makes sense to only vaccinate those likely to be affected by it. Reducing spread becomes pointless if it’s inevitable anyway

Whose view is that though? It has currency amongst some MN posters and a clutch of scientists. It's not the official view, is it?

Also, as aforementioned, that is not always the rationale behind other jabs. Flu jab is , at least in large part, about spread. Boys have HPV. Children have rubella to protect pregnant women. The only rationale for jabs is not whether you personally get the illness.

@edwinbear

DS (12) is an athlete, swimmer & rugby player at county levels. Sudden cardiac arrest happens in all 3 of his sports. I won’t be exposing him to any additional risk thanks. He’s had 4 periods of self isolation, not tested positive and is perfectly well. He won’t be vaccinated.

I don’t blame you.

Apparently doctors are advising against intense sport after the vaccine.

www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/181660/doctors-advise-against-intensive-sport-after-covid-vaccination/

The JCVI have refused to back the jab for this age group. Surely they have had all the latest stats, facts and figures etc not available to most of us. So I can't understand why people still want their children to have the jab? Serious question. What happened to 'following the science'?
Surely the JCVI know more than the average parent? Personally I think health has to come before anything, even disruption to school.

But bear should know and weigh up that the risk of cardiac damage is higher as a result of covid. Sudden cardiac arrests in sport frighten me too . They are often a result of an as yet undiscovered heart condition, however. My boys are sporty, too and there are heart conditions in my family. Covid poses the greater risk to hearts (that's why DH was vaccinated earlier than his age group after all). The statistics show this. I think actually the focus on myocarditis as a result of vaccine, without a discussion of the wider context of Covid side effects - in the way it is being spoken of by some - is actually scaremongering : and, in general, I think that word is overused.

Whose view is that though? It has currency amongst some MN posters and a clutch of scientists. It's not the official view, is it?

It sounds a bit Great Barrington Declarationy.

The JCVI have refused to back the jab for this age group. Surely they have had all the latest stats, facts and figures etc not available to most of us.

They should have provided them if they have them. Scientists normally show their working in the interests of transparency, particularly as those scientists are now saying it is up to parents to weigh up the benefits and risks.

Avoiding highly intensive exercise (at elite level) it seems is NOT the same as saying don't get vaccinated!

Piggy if CMO overrule will you be ok for your dc to have it and be ok with that or would you prefer as many as possible in age range do?

I’m happy to make my own decisions wrt to dc and others do the same - do you feel differently?

@TheReluctantPhoenix

I find it interesting how COVID has exposed both the best in us all and the worst in us all, and also the weakness of our cherished western ‘individualism’, which many cannot separate from selfishness.

Even those who try not to be selfish for themselves think it absolutely fine to be as grasping as possible on behalf of their children-as if ‘doing the best for one’s own child’ was axiomatically a good thing.

I cannot understand why children should not be given the vaccine to protect society (and, by virtue of that, other less well off children).

If there were a virus that targeted children only, I don’t imagine we would be at a place where childless adults would be applauded for not getting vaccinated, as the ‘risk to them was less than the risk of the vaccine’. There would be massive moral suasion (if not compulsion) for all adults to be vaccinated.

And, if there were a virus that only targeted women, we would encourage men and boys to be vaccinated too….,oh, hold on, there is. How many are getting their sons vaccinated against HPV aged 12 or 13??

It is a very skewed moral compass that thinks protecting one’s own child from a risk smaller than being struck by lightning is not worth saving 10s or 100s of thousands of adult lives, and also keeping schools open, vital for vulnerable children.

I am hoping we will start the 12-15 program as soon as possible and, ultimately, including COVID among the normal childhood vaccinations.

I understand this argument and partly agree with it. However playing devils advocate you could argue it completely the opposite way too. When I first read I your comment I thought you were arguing it the other way round then realised you weren’t. I have to take issue though with your comment that if there was a virus that majority affected children I bet their would be millions of adults that would object to taking a vaccine that did not benefit them. Adults on the whole are a million times more selfish and self centred than children are. Would it be morally right to vaccinate 80 year old plus with a vaccine for a virus that had little to no effect on them? It’s an interesting conundrum. Children rely on adults so there is a power imbalance there that I am not comfortable with. And I agree with Marsha completely that kids have given up loads and loads already in this pandemic and mostly without wilder society acknowledging this.

@Piggywaspushed

Avoiding highly intensive exercise (at elite level) it seems is NOT the same as saying don't get vaccinated!

I didn’t say it was. It acknowledges that there may be an increased risk from the vaccine after intensive exercise though which some people may be unwilling to take.

And I accept your argument re. Hpv, my son had it this year. First year I think so most men and boys have not been vaccinated against it. Is there a widespread campaign running to encourage men to vaccinate with HPv vaccine? No there isn’t . Hypothetically . I wonder what men would say if we asked them to take HPV vaccine this week to protect mothers and wives and daughters. How many would queue up? Very few I bet.

@Mumpud

The JCVI have refused to back the jab for this age group. Surely they have had all the latest stats, facts and figures etc not available to most of us. So I can't understand why people still want their children to have the jab? Serious question. What happened to 'following the science'? Surely the JCVI know more than the average parent? Personally I think health has to come before anything, even disruption to school.

@Mumpud - except we’ve had 18 months of being told that disruption to school is exceptionally bad for children’s mental and physical health and long term life chances (not to mention decades of being told pretty much any missed day of school is a very bad thing and holidays in term time a monumental sin).

@bumbleymummy - and do you think it is advisable to do intensive exercise in the week after getting covid?

@onlyreadingneverposting8 I agree, along with the implications of putting pressure on the NHS.

It’s not about the morals of parental choice.

Is there a widespread campaign running to encourage men to vaccinate with HPv vaccine? No there isn’t

I think that's because there's little point in getting it once you're sexually active because you've probably already been exposed.

There will be pressure from GPs for teens to get jabbed. On top of the usual jab payment there is an additional £10 bonus for getting teens done.

• 14.Is there a financial supplement for vaccinating eligible 12-15 year olds? Yes. In addition to the £12.58 item of service fee, a further supplement of £10 can be claimed per vaccination dose to eligible children and young people aged 12-15 (cohort 13). Only one £10 supplement per vaccination is claimable.*

From the nhs website [https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2021/08/C1384-Vaccinating-children-and-young-people-frequently-asked-questions.pdf] just in case anyone thinks it fake news.

And it was published 13 August so all the debate and mutterings in the media over the last couple of weeks have been a distraction (maybe from those pesky tax rises to pay for the last 18 months?). This is a done deal.

@Worldgonecrazy - I think you’ll find you’ve missed the word “eligible” when being shocked and horrified by the date. Of course it has been a done deal since August to vaccinate vulnerable 12-15 year olds with specific conditions.

*and also those living with CEV adults