News conference 5pm today.

[beccahamlet]

Anyone any idea if this is going to be anything dramatic or just a 'be careful' pep talk?

anyone who thinks that vaccine passports will end at nightclubs is deluded

by spring you'll need them to get in a whole range of places

This is it - Digital ID. Big Brother is here. Get used to it

Why would anyone be surprised that vaccinated people comprise 40 or even 60% of hospitalisation. Only a tiny percentage of over 50s aren’t vaccinated. The vaccine reduces the risk, those at very high risk are still at some risk. Not dying and leaving hospital in reasonably good health are still an enormous improvement and worth having the vaccine! It also doesn’t take in 100% of people, particularly the immunocompromised. Personally I find it more worrying that a significant proportion of hospitalisations are in younger people

@jgw1, it's a very easy google. In fact, over 6,000 people were imprisoned during WW1 alone for conscientious objection. It included solitary confinement and a rule of silence.

www.iwm.org.uk/history/voices-of-the-first-world-war-conscientious-objection

This is lack of access to a nightclub until a horrific pandemic has passed. Not equivalent.

So 40% of Covid hospitalizations have been vaccinated ..I would really like to know the percentage of those that have been double vaccinated, cant find it anywhere.

Why would anyone be surprised that vaccinated people comprise 40 or even 60% of hospitalisation

Because data from America shows that double vaccinated people rarely need hospital, and 99.5% of the deaths in America are in the unvaccinated.

American data suggests that Pfizer and Moderna work well.

@Tealightsandd

Why would anyone be surprised that vaccinated people comprise 40 or even 60% of hospitalisation

Because data from America shows that double vaccinated people rarely need hospital, and 99.5% of the deaths in America are in the unvaccinated.

American data suggests that Pfizer and Moderna work well.

Absolutely. The city of Los Angeles reported a couple days ago that 100% of the hospitalizations in county-run hospitals were from those not fully vaccinated (be that a single shot or totally unvaccinated). That's in a county of over 10 million people.

(That includes not just Pfizer and Moderna but also J&J, which is a single-shot.)

How can anyone justify a member of NHS staff testing positive for this potentially deadly virus and STILL being allowed to care for vulnerable patients, putting these patients at an increase risk of covid complications and/or death? It does not add up.

Not too difficult is it?

1. They’re talking about people identified as contacts not people who are positive
2. They need to do PCR and daily lateral flows
3. It’s only allowed in an emergency
4. Due to underinvestment there aren’t enough staff. If you’re in need of treatment and there’s nobody to care for you and provide treatment you have no hope whatsoever.

@Nancydrawn

But you’re comparing two things that are not totally alike and come to a conclusion without considering additional factors. LA had extremely high covid levels, a lot of people would have had natural immunity. So they’ve had 2 jabs plus natural immunity. Who did they vaccinate first? (I don’t know the answer but I’m pretty sure it was different to our groups). So say for instance they did working age people, higher socioeconomic groups, white people etc first, the ones unvaccinated would be those at higher risk. Knowing ‘who’ the unvaccinated are is extremely important as it could quite easily be some higher risk groups that they haven’t managed to reach. It’s far too simplistic to jump straight into it just being the vaccine type

@BungleandGeorge

How can anyone justify a member of NHS staff testing positive for this potentially deadly virus and STILL being allowed to care for vulnerable patients, putting these patients at an increase risk of covid complications and/or death? It does not add up.

Not too difficult is it?

1. They’re talking about people identified as contacts not people who are positive
2. They need to do PCR and daily lateral flows
3. It’s only allowed in an emergency
4. Due to underinvestment there aren’t enough staff. If you’re in need of treatment and there’s nobody to care for you and provide treatment you have no hope whatsoever.

Not as simple as you're making out - member of staff tests positive on say, day 3, they've been infecting people left right and centre whilst wearing a surgical mask because they will only have been wearing FFP3 respirators for aerosol generating procedures, another piss poor policy from DHSC...

All these people claiming they've been jabbed for 'the greater good' 😂 let's face it, not many of you gave a toss about your fellow human beings even in March 2020, grabbing home delivery slots from vulnerable people and stockpiling reams of loo roll and packets of pasta. Me me fucking me.

I actually did get the vaccine because I understand the importance of herd immunity not because I was worried that me a 35yr old would get very ill from covid. There was a bit of selfishness in it though in that it is also important to me to show my children a good example. Just like there is selfishness in not getting vaccinated. Nobody is perfect.

Wearing a face mask, social distancing, getting vaccinated are all really simple things I can do to make other peoples lives easier and less worrisome, why wouldn't I do it? If other people choose not to I don't care.

I'm not going to pretend to care about vaccine passports either, if people don't care about the effect them not getting vaccinated has on society I'm certainly not going to care that you can't go clubbing or whatever else you can't do in the future. You can make your choices, I can make mine.

@leafyygreens

All these people claiming they've been jabbed for 'the greater good' 😂 let's face it, not many of you gave a toss about your fellow human beings even in March 2020, grabbing home delivery slots from vulnerable people and stockpiling reams of loo roll and packets of pasta. Me me fucking me.

hello @Horseyhorsey3

I'm guessing you haven't been vaccinated?

The fact that most people are doing it for their own benefit (even indirectly - I'm as low risk as you can get but I'm not claiming I'm doing it for primarily altruistic motives) is not an argument to not get the vaccine

My vaccination status is irrelevant to the matter in question, what is laughable is the amount of virtue signalling and ultimate selfishness being passed off as altruism. Anyone who dares question the narrative is a deadly biohazard who must be excluded from society 🙄 what about people for whom vaccination doesn't work and they have no antibodies, do we exclude them as well? If not, then it makes a mockery of needing to be vaccinated because they don't have the "benefits" of the antibodies

My recollection is that the figures (projected ones) were on a slide that the politicians had insisted on using
Not much blame to attach to the scientists

I thought we were constantly being told that the scientists are independent, and that those who suggest they'll bend to politicians' demands are all conspiracy theorists?

I'm another who'd like to believe that Vallance's "mistake" was just that, but then why didn't one of his staff mutter "Other way round!!" so he could correct it right away instead of hours later? He could have said "Blast, I transposed those numbers" and most would have understood, but as it is ... sorry, but it just doesn't wash

@Jellykat
Someone posted a link on another thread of a report that that Public Health England published on 25th June
I’m pretty sure it has the information your looking for.
I had a quick look myself, quite surprised that it showed that most in hospital were unvaccinated but most deaths were vaccinated, the highest number was from those who were double vaccinated.
I’d never heard about this report before so I don’t think it was widely known about but it was on the day the Matt Hancock affair was all over the news.

@Tealightsandd

I'm not sure we can draw the conclusions that the UK needs to start giving a booster to everyone who has had AZ based on the data from America for a few reasons.

The most obvious being that the Delta variant is not yet as established across the US. We know AZ and PFizer work very well against the Kent variant and not as well against Delta. America may just be a few weeks behind us.

America also has very variable vaccination rates and the uptake has not been as good as in the UK overall. Large swathes of America remain largely unvaccinated. Obviously if you have a larger population of unvaccinated people, it makes sense that a larger proportion of those infected would be unvaccinated. If most/all people within a population are vaccinated then of course everyone who is hospitalised would be vaccinated because there are no unvaccinated people around to become ill. The hospitalisation rates overall will be lower but those who are hospitalised would obviously have to be double jabbed.

There are too many variables to really draw any solid conclusions between the US and UK data at this point.

@Geamhradh….yes!!!! That’s exactly what I was thinking of. I’d far rather have Morgan Freeman in charge right now. I’m sure he’d be a safer pair of hands.

My vaccination status is irrelevant to the matter in question, what is laughable is the amount of virtue signalling and ultimate selfishness being passed off as altruism. Anyone who dares question the narrative is a deadly biohazard who must be excluded from society 🙄 what about people for whom vaccination doesn't work and they have no antibodies, do we exclude them as well? If not, then it makes a mockery of needing to be vaccinated because they don't have the "benefits" of the antibodies

This is a prime example of how important it is to achieve population-level immunity

If there are very low levels of virus circulating, someone who had vaccine failure is very unlikely to pick up coronavirus and therefore very unlikely to pass it onto someone else.

Your vaccine status is relevant to the points you're making, as you were using it as an argument to not get vaccinated (i.e., everyone is doing it for selfish reasons so why should I). I was pointing out that this doesn't make sense.

Reading some of the comments on here
I really do think there is no harm whatsoever in keeping some members of society a little… cut off from the majority shall we say

@Puzzledandpissedoff

My recollection is that the figures (projected ones) were on a slide that the politicians had insisted on using Not much blame to attach to the scientists

I thought we were constantly being told that the scientists are independent, and that those who suggest they'll bend to politicians' demands are all conspiracy theorists?

I'm another who'd like to believe that Vallance's "mistake" was just that, but then why didn't one of his staff mutter "Other way round!!" so he could correct it right away instead of hours later? He could have said "Blast, I transposed those numbers" and most would have understood, but as it is ... sorry, but it just doesn't wash

Really unsure about this mistake. As it was accompanied by him giving a explanation of why he would expect fully jabbed covid infections to rise. Today he seemed really off and pissed off. Just the way he walked off stage He let jvt answer most of the questions.

I'm not anti vax I have had 1 jab soon yo have 2nd.
But find the lack info from the government of how many jabbed people in hospital or die lacking.
Also why does Israel claim pfizer only 65% effective against delta and phe say 80%.
Not totally sure AZ is that effective against delta .
Dr John Cambell on you tube did some recent videos on weekend about rise in the vaccinated.

The most obvious being that the Delta variant is not yet as established across the US. We know AZ and PFizer work very well against the Kent variant and not as well against Delta. America may just be a few weeks behind us.

They're saying that Delta is now the dominant strain in America.

Yes as you say, in America the Delta strain is spreading in the unvaccinated.

Both vaccines do seem to work well against the Alpha (UK) strain. And it is slightly less against the Delta strain.

But data from America is clear. Whilst efficacy is a bit lower against Delta, it's clear that Pfizer and Moderna still work very well. They are saying that double vaccinated (so mostly Pfizer and Moderna, with a smaller number of Johnson and Johnson), rarely need hospital. And nearly 100% of the deaths are in the unvaccinated.

Separately, potentially astrazeneca isn't very effective against Beta.

Patrick V speaking today:

mobile.twitter.com/Jon_Chalk1/status/1417224184577593345

Astrazeneca are currently working on boosters. Tweaked to protect against the newer strains. So fingers crossed perhaps by autumn. (Obviously depending on how well the trials go).

@Horseyhorsey3 it is quite simple. Would you rather be treated by someone with a very small chance of being covid positive or by nobody at all? Those staff are not going to be deployed to wards with vulnerable people. If they’re working on covid wards what’s your concern?

[quote Dustyboots]Patrick V speaking today:

mobile.twitter.com/Jon_Chalk1/status/1417224184577593345[/quote]
Yup, so PV stated 60% of people who were hospitalized were double jabbed which was wrong. He has now corrected himself to say that 60% of those hospitalized were not vaccinated.

I don't see how anyone can think this is anything other than a mistake, given how keen the government are to get people vaccinated?