Teens will not be routinely vaccinated, JCVI recommends

[noblegiraffe]

Their report isn't out till tomorrow, but continuing with the govt tradition of making big announcements via favoured news outlets, the Telegraph reports that the guidance will be that children aged 12+ will not be offered routine covid vaccinations.

"Instead, under guidance due to be issued on Monday, jabs will be offered to children between 12 and 15 who are deemed vulnerable to Covid or who live with adults who are immunosuppressed or otherwise vulnerable to the virus. They will also now be offered to all 17-year-olds within three months of their 18th birthday."

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/17/children-will-get-covid-vaccines-vulnerable/

So from September, there will be literally nothing stopping covid spreading around schools bar the odd open window.

@WouldBeGood

This is a screenshot of an interesting thread which refers to the “non trivial” risk of myocarditis in teenage boys in particular following vaccination. He’s a Covid centrist, not a denier. The situation as regards vaccination of children is not yet clear cut.

This would be prevalent imo if there were restrictions or plans to stop teenagers catching covid. If schools were trying to be covid secure then I'd rather not have the vaccs and keep trying to avoid covid. As the government has no desire to stop.our children catching it the balance of risk changes. Currently there are two options. My son will catch covid or he will be vaccinated. The option of not catching covid is impossible due to the decisions of this government. Covid comes with its own risks.

@cherin, I couldn’t agree with you more. As the parent of a 17.5 yr old sixth former DD, I am raging that her life is worth less than her cousin, 5 months older. My DD may get to Christmas and have her second jab; many of her peers won’t be able to travel etc by the time they finish sixth form as they’re summer born. Education faces massive disruption again this coming year because of this reckless and discriminatory policy, which risks the wider community and especially the teachers crammed in poorly ventilated spaces with these adult sized super spreaders.
The irony of being aged 16-18 in a country that states you can make your own healthcare decisions yet won’t allow you the same medical care as an adult is actually laughable, given that other countries ARE vaccinating this group.
I genuinely don’t understand why more people aren’t up in arms about this. I have found myself wondering if this is a breach of this age group’s rights?
The age group 16-17 are out working in public facing roles as weekend or summer jobs.
Encouraged to do so to earn money and boost personal statements for uni.
They may even be apprentices who could enter our homes to do work, without having a vaccination under their belt. People are so bloody de-mob happy about restrictions ending and “all over 18s who want a vaccine has had one”, that they’re not stopping to think.
People should take a hard look at who serves them in a pub, a shop, a restaurant. Or who cleans their hotel room or helps their child at pony club/summer camps. In my friendship group, 17 year old offspring are doing the following jobs; hotel cleaning and portering, lifeguarding, volunteers at pony clubs and stables, waiting tables, assisting at sporting events, shop work, factory work. I know two teenagers who are working as apprentice electricians, in and out of people’s houses.
We should all be worried about this and if I was a teacher I’d be wondering where my union was. It’s a national disgrace. This age group have suffered enough with cancelled exams, dubious results, severely curtailed social lives at a time when it is most important, missed milestones/rites of passage. Now, on top of all of that, they’re the group that continue to carry the risk for the adults.
My DD appears to have Long Covid. The impact has been brutal. Parents should be concerned. My DD was previously fit and healthy, no real school absences ever to speak of; never caught anything doing the rounds. She’s a shell now; physically and mentally. I suspect this will impact her entire life and because of that, mine and that of my DH as well. I’ll say it again; to those of you who are anti- vaccine for teens, you should be worried. I thought my DD would be fine as well.

that's the problem with scientists - when they do something you agree with then they are geniuses, but when they do something you disagree with then they are fools

@WouldBeGood

that’s good *@Abraxan*

I’m in Scotland so anticipating being locked up forever for my own good.

Sorry but I did it's a shame that there is no Johnson/Sturgeon hybrid.

[quote Lupinhere37]@cherin, I couldn’t agree with you more. As the parent of a 17.5 yr old sixth former DD, I am raging that her life is worth less than her cousin, 5 months older. My DD may get to Christmas and have her second jab; many of her peers won’t be able to travel etc by the time they finish sixth form as they’re summer born. Education faces massive disruption again this coming year because of this reckless and discriminatory policy, which risks the wider community and especially the teachers crammed in poorly ventilated spaces with these adult sized super spreaders.
The irony of being aged 16-18 in a country that states you can make your own healthcare decisions yet won’t allow you the same medical care as an adult is actually laughable, given that other countries ARE vaccinating this group.
I genuinely don’t understand why more people aren’t up in arms about this. I have found myself wondering if this is a breach of this age group’s rights?
The age group 16-17 are out working in public facing roles as weekend or summer jobs.
Encouraged to do so to earn money and boost personal statements for uni.
They may even be apprentices who could enter our homes to do work, without having a vaccination under their belt. People are so bloody de-mob happy about restrictions ending and “all over 18s who want a vaccine has had one”, that they’re not stopping to think.
People should take a hard look at who serves them in a pub, a shop, a restaurant. Or who cleans their hotel room or helps their child at pony club/summer camps. In my friendship group, 17 year old offspring are doing the following jobs; hotel cleaning and portering, lifeguarding, volunteers at pony clubs and stables, waiting tables, assisting at sporting events, shop work, factory work. I know two teenagers who are working as apprentice electricians, in and out of people’s houses.
We should all be worried about this and if I was a teacher I’d be wondering where my union was. It’s a national disgrace. This age group have suffered enough with cancelled exams, dubious results, severely curtailed social lives at a time when it is most important, missed milestones/rites of passage. Now, on top of all of that, they’re the group that continue to carry the risk for the adults.
My DD appears to have Long Covid. The impact has been brutal. Parents should be concerned. My DD was previously fit and healthy, no real school absences ever to speak of; never caught anything doing the rounds. She’s a shell now; physically and mentally. I suspect this will impact her entire life and because of that, mine and that of my DH as well. I’ll say it again; to those of you who are anti- vaccine for teens, you should be worried. I thought my DD would be fine as well.[/quote]
I've been shot down for this before, but the youth are less likely to vote and when they do less likely to vote Tory. The government can shaft the youth as much as they like and still remain in power.

Robert Jenrick was on the Andrew Marr show this morning and what he said was that the data showed was that vaccinating teens was safe and effective (I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist). He also said that the govt hadn't made a decision, but would do so in the next few days.

I hope they decide to let DPs and their DC make the choice for themselves. Data from the US and Israel shows that Pfizer is safe for DC and even if only a proportion of DC get vaccinated it will help to damp down an autumn wave that will further disrupt schooling otherwise.

www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-information-for-parents-on-myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-202107012523

It’s a national disgrace. This age group have suffered enough with cancelled exams, dubious results, severely curtailed social lives at a time when it is most important, missed milestones/rites of passage. Now, on top of all of that, they’re the group that continue to carry the risk for the adults.

It doesn't make sense that they cancelled exams and are now letting the virus rip through this age group without offering 16-18s the chance of a vaccine. Also come autumn their 6th form could be disrupted

@Whichjab I said that to my DD last week. When you get the vote, you remember what they have done to your age group. I hope this age group have very long memories….. like those still bearing grudges towards the Tories because of Thatcher and the miners, this will hopefully be a politically defining moment for this next group of young voters and also their parents.

@WouldBeGood

This is a screenshot of an interesting thread which refers to the “non trivial” risk of myocarditis in teenage boys in particular following vaccination. He’s a Covid centrist, not a denier. The situation as regards vaccination of children is not yet clear cut.

But covid-19 itself causes myocarditis in children and teens. In addition to that MIS-C also seems to cause to cause myocarditis. And not just in the mild, sorta itself out in days with treatment seen in the VAERS

When I raised this on here last year I’m response to ‘children are low risk’ I was told myocarditis isn’t an issue loads of stuff causes it. Which presumably also applies to the vaccine.

If it turns out that it’s now not ok to vaccinate because of myocarditis why is it ok to have a policy of deliberately infecting as many children as possible with Covid and giving them myocarditis that way?

It would be one thing if we were going for zero covid, but we aren’t. We’re aiming herd immunity by infecting children.

So we’re all happy that up to y11 will be given the flu jab (jab which is also new for the year, as it’s a vaccine which is reformulated every year for the current selection of strains) but the 16-17yo will NOT have the flu jab nor the Covid vaccine. What’s the logic in that?
I am happy to go and pay for my DS to get the flu jab at the local pharmacy and nobody would raise an eyebrow for that. It’s 20-25£, if he wants it I’ll book him in. But he has not had a flu for years, and I never had to worry so much of a flu before. But after 1,5years of banging about the risks of covid and now knowing the numbers of kids with long covid…nope, we can’t get a Covid vaccine.

16yo seem to be missing out on flu jab, COVID jab and proper GCSEs!

Worrying study about Long Covid in young people www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/06/210623113911.htm

@noblegiraffe I was disappointed to read this today. I would have been first in line for my 8 year old, if and when the JVCI recommended the vaccine to his age group.

I was reassured somewhat by this thread from Francois Balloux, explaining the relative risks.

mobile.twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1407865078439944196

that's the problem with scientists - when they do something you agree with then they are geniuses, but when they do something you disagree with then they are fools

There’s a lot of that on here right now.

Yes WoulBeGood, myocarditis has been a side effect of the vaccines on young, and teens, specially males. Though they do say, with no long lasting consequences.
The post covid syndrome identified after the first wave, does affect the heart indeed, and it is more frequent in males too.
Covid itself affects the heart too.

The question is will these children face a serious illness (life threatening) if faced with covid, maybe because they are more susceptible? Is that the reason why they had this side effect with the vaccine? And are they now protected when they get in contact with the virus? Saving them from a multi- organ failure.

The scientific community themselves are still debating whether the risk is higher than the benefits or it goes the other way around.

I think until someone finds how really covid works, and why it is so deadly to some, and only mild or no symptoms to others, we will not have the true answer to this.

At the moment, we can only evaluate the risk/ benefit.

I had symptoms after my vaccines, but nothing to compare to what we had when covid first started circulating around, when I felt really rough. And I wish for the same protection for my teen. Based on all her family now fully vaccinated, with different jabs, and we were all ok.

I do understand the other side of the coin. Not wanting to risk effects due to vaccine.

I wish we could choose freely.

@cherin Boots seem to be allowing anyone to book a free flu jab, I have booked for my 17 to.

Surely it is a political decision rather than a medical one? Other countries are vaccinating all secondary school age children. My ds16 has already been done.

In all honesty, if they were to justify it on the basis of fairness for the rest of the world, I’d accept it. It is much better for vulnerable people to get it than a healthy teen in a leafy English suburb at 10’ distance from a great hospital. I get it.
But I haven’t heard this justification much and am pretty sure it’s not the reason behind it. For a start, it would not necessarily be a pfizer vaccine that gets shipped to a remote location (happy to be corrected here!)
But as they’re not protected by vaccine, when a vaccine exist, then they should not be willingly exposed to more risks than strictly necessary. And if they miss out on their exams, or education in general, it’s not entirely their personal responsibility, isn’t it?

Seems to me vaccinating teens is not straightforward and has medical and ethical issues that are not the same as for adults. I am all for a wait and see approach. I would be happy with over 16’s but think we should wait for under 16.
There are also school disruption issues with children to throw into mix. It’s a tricky one and it seems even the scientists opinions differ. I find it irritating to hear loud voices pro vaccine from those without kids therefore with no skin in the game.

@WouldBeGood

And some teachers will be saying that unvaccinated children shouldn’t be allowed in school.

There’s no need to vaccinate kids routinely in this instance.

Ridiculous comment. Plenty of children are in schools not vaccinated against any diseases but teachers don't say they shouldn't be in school

Any chance to bash teachers...

@cherin

In all honesty, if they were to justify it on the basis of fairness for the rest of the world, I’d accept it. It is much better for vulnerable people to get it than a healthy teen in a leafy English suburb at 10’ distance from a great hospital. I get it. But I haven’t heard this justification much and am pretty sure it’s not the reason behind it. For a start, it would not necessarily be a pfizer vaccine that gets shipped to a remote location (happy to be corrected here!) But as they’re not protected by vaccine, when a vaccine exist, then they should not be willingly exposed to more risks than strictly necessary. And if they miss out on their exams, or education in general, it’s not entirely their personal responsibility, isn’t it?

Sarah Gilbert made this comment re. Vaccinating our children before others in poorer nations but I am sure it is not a consideration for the government advisors. Just a background point. They have duty to U.K. only which is fair enough It’s weird as there are loads of lefty Twitter accounts pushing vaccine for children but none really making this rather obvious point. I would have thought left wing people would be all over this argument but no crickets. Strange.

I've got a 13 year old on immunosuppressants and I'd feel a lot happier knowing she was vaccinated. I'll be interested to see if she would qualify. Also have a 6ft4 almost 16 year old and don't see why he shouldn't have the vaccine when a 17 year old can.

@AngelsWithSilverWings 17 year olds are not eligible either