Teens will not be routinely vaccinated, JCVI recommends

[noblegiraffe]

Their report isn't out till tomorrow, but continuing with the govt tradition of making big announcements via favoured news outlets, the Telegraph reports that the guidance will be that children aged 12+ will not be offered routine covid vaccinations.

"Instead, under guidance due to be issued on Monday, jabs will be offered to children between 12 and 15 who are deemed vulnerable to Covid or who live with adults who are immunosuppressed or otherwise vulnerable to the virus. They will also now be offered to all 17-year-olds within three months of their 18th birthday."

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/17/children-will-get-covid-vaccines-vulnerable/

So from September, there will be literally nothing stopping covid spreading around schools bar the odd open window.

Why do you think they are offering it to children where there is an adult in the family that is CEV @WouldBeGood?

That doesn't help CEV teachers stuck in a classroom with 30 unvaccinated people

So the MRHA have already approved its use in 12-17. The JCVI are the ones (if the media are to be believed) who will be saying it’s not going to be used. What is their motive here for saying no? Saving money? Scared of Us4Them?

Penguins, that I understand. There could be pressure to get them vaccinated.
But as other countries are doing so, you may face travel restrictions with them, even if the vaccine is not happening here for this age group.
We will know for real when we get there, as with everything else.

I would still prefer for mine to be vaccinated, as I do see it as a way to protect them from the virus, now and from other future variants.

Regarding the commitee decision of not doing so, yes of course they are the experts, so they know better.
Other committees with the very same data and pandemic have gone with a yes to the immunisation over 12, and children down to infants, and they are rolling it.

@Appuskidu

So the MRHA have already approved its use in 12-17. The JCVI are the ones (if the media are to be believed) who will be saying it’s not going to be used. What is their motive here for saying no? Saving money? Scared of Us4Them?

We’ll find out when the information is released.

It could be saving money Appuskiidu. This is from the JCVI code of practice:

Looking forward, to maintain consistency across the NHS, the Working Group recommends that the JCVI’s assessment of cost-effectiveness of vaccines should continue to reflect NICE methodological guidance and practice. This may require that the JCVI’s methods, and its consideration of the evidence, evolve as, for example, NICE refines its methodology, or if Value Based Pricing changes the way in which health benefits are quantified.

Who knows. Their code of practice also states that there should be privacy in their meetings.

@TotorosCatBus

It will be interesting to read their reasoning and why the UK has decided against vaccinating 12-17 year olds when other countries am have decided for it.

3rd doses of pfizer needed for those who recieved AZ?

It's a maths problem, guaranteed.

Cheaper and easier to lock them up at home, plus the unions agree, so no money and no stress.

Shits

Are we going to have a third jab?

Who is ‘we’ mush? There is certainly talk of booster vaccinations going into winter for those who were vaccinated months ago.

Adults? Already doubled jabbed?
I have heard of it been spoken about, but not of it been confirmed yet

I personally think the advice to pregnant women was good:

It is individual choice. we don’t have a huge amount of long-term data, studies are ongoing. Many women have had the jab and no significant problems related to vaccine have been detected. There is some data that women who catch covid close to delivery have higher risk of some complications.

I would have hoped for something Similar with children - especially 16 and 17 year olds. I agree that on an individual health basis the cost-benefit may not be that clear; but people may have different risks (not just in their medical history) which will factor into their decision.

For example - taking part in elite sport or sport which involves multiple players in close contact indoors; taking important exams so don’t want to risk covid or having to daily commute to school on high risk public transport in areas with very high corona rates; or parents who while not vulnerable, do not want to risk getting covid and being off work as there are economic implications.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/17/pressure-builds-on-ministers-to-reach-a-decision-on-covid-vaccines-for-children

link above to article in Guardian that seemed to suggest vaccinating teens would be required and the JCVI might be going to approve this.
Plus it clearly explains that the JCVI are not in a position nor do they have the role of deciding on safety.

So this leaked news is very very disappointing and unethical given the risks of long covid, mass transmission, reservoir of infection, safety of classrooms, certainty of education, teen's long-term career prospects etc. It is unfair for them to still be treated like lepers in a country where all the adults have been offered vaccines.
Plus as we know with CEV and CV adults, it is not always easy to get a GP to agree what CEV and CV is and for GPs to apply this consistently. My GP practice worked to actively block my CEV relative getting the vaccine as they were a young adult and they didn't see that they would die of Covid, irrespective of the fact that the relative was eligible online (but needed a specific vaccine that the GP had to organise). So now we can look forward to a repeat of that stress with the teens.

There’s a fundamental unfairness in this idea of the 17 and 3/4 being vaccinated…DS is going to get to Xmas2021 with his second dose, and hopefully will sit his A levels will less disruptions. Some of his summer-born friends will not have a vaccine till May, when they’ll have to sit the exams, and by the time they’ll finish the cycle they might just be ready to go to uni, but not vaccinated to travel. That’s unfair on the kids, unfair on the parents and teachers. With regard to continuity of education, IMO all 6th formers/16+ should be offered a jab, then if they don’t want to take it they are free to say no.

But as other countries are doing so, you may face travel restrictions with them, even if the vaccine is not happening here for this age group.

That’s the choice I’d make - luckily we don’t have family abroad so it’s just about holidays. I wouldn’t be happy to be excluded from society in my own country though. My DC are young. They are at less risk than my double vaccinated parents, I’d rather they had a booster than my DC be vaccinated. Maybe I’d think differently if I had teenagers, but if they recommended for over 12s you can guarantee there would be a clamour for over 10s then over 7s and all the way down because parents have been manipulated into compliance through fear for their own children who were never at as much of a risk from Covid as they are from many other things we subject them to regularly (e.g. car journeys).

More wait and see! Typical covid situation.

We certainly will not reach the herd immunity thresold witjout the teens vaccinated. I think that may lead to the advice of them been vaccinated, ultimatelly.

I am so frustrated with all of this at the moment, I have a 16yr old with autism, but as it's not a profound disability his gp won't put him forward for it. He is just about to start a little job in a service station and college in September by public transport. I really wish they would sort theirselves out and let the teens who want it, have it. I would also feel happier if he was jabbed.

A good few other european countries have started at pace, most of my friends in Italy have vaccinated their 12+ kids already (some are in between first and second dose), this means that for them next year should be less disrupted at school. None of them had any side effect besides a sore arm and a day of tiredness with the second dose. They can use the Eu green pass and travel more freely. A Eu teenager with a green pass is treated like an adult with a green pass and doesn’t have to quarantine. A U.K. teenager will have to quarantine in plenty of countries upon arrival (that is- if we’re allowed in!).

Not everybody travels for holidays, many of us do it for family reasons or to study. How many more opportunities do we want to prevent them from having?

I think 16 and 17 year olds who are mostly fully grown and old enough to have their own opinions, should be offered it. Theres a big difference between a 12 year old and a 17 year old

So our kids are not likely to have exchange trips next year if German/French/Spanish kids are jabbed and British kids not.

@Staffholidayclubrep

So our kids are not likely to have exchange trips next year if German/French/Spanish kids are jabbed and British kids not.

I think all those countries accept a negative test as condition of entry as well as vaccination?

I’ll be interested to read the report, however I can see a number of logical thoughts leading to the recommendation.

Firstly, if supply is limited, much more important for doses to be kept for boosters for the vulnerable if they’re required.

Secondly, if the conclusion is that the risks outweigh the benefits at an individual level for this age group, I see why that might need to be held up by an outside body.

Levels of anxiety among certain adults are very high and parents may be making decisions based on their own anxiety rather what’s right for their child. Equally, there’s the danger of schools behaving in coercive ways to get vaccination numbers up.

Although some other countries have gone down this route, they are small in numbers at this stage. Most countries haven’t made a decision yet.

The countries that have okayed it are in slightly different positions than the U.K. Israel has no issues with supply for example. Take up rates among adults in France are much lower, ditto US.

So yeah, I can see how the reasoning at this stage could be sound. It might also change as we get a sense of what it takes to reach herd immunity. Interested to hear more.

This is a screenshot of an interesting thread which refers to the “non trivial” risk of myocarditis in teenage boys in particular following vaccination. He’s a Covid centrist, not a denier. The situation as regards vaccination of children is not yet clear cut.

@WouldBeGood

I think they will stop the isolations though. No need when vulnerable vaccinated.

Isolations stop for most on 16 August in England anyway. It's only if you're unvaccinated you have to isolate- under 18s and vaccinated people won't need to unless it's themselves who tested positive.

It'll be a while before positive cases themselves don't isolate I'd have thought.

that’s good @Abraxan

I’m in Scotland so anticipating being locked up forever for my own good.

Also, the flu vaccine will also offer some protection against covid-19 in younger people.

Will it?
Surely flu is a different virus to covid and there the Flu jab only protects from that, not from covid too.