Teens will not be routinely vaccinated, JCVI recommends

[noblegiraffe]

Their report isn't out till tomorrow, but continuing with the govt tradition of making big announcements via favoured news outlets, the Telegraph reports that the guidance will be that children aged 12+ will not be offered routine covid vaccinations.

"Instead, under guidance due to be issued on Monday, jabs will be offered to children between 12 and 15 who are deemed vulnerable to Covid or who live with adults who are immunosuppressed or otherwise vulnerable to the virus. They will also now be offered to all 17-year-olds within three months of their 18th birthday."

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/17/children-will-get-covid-vaccines-vulnerable/

So from September, there will be literally nothing stopping covid spreading around schools bar the odd open window.

[quote Walkaround]@UsedUpUsername - no, their lives are affected by the decisions of other countries, too, as I pointed out in the bit of my message you chose not to quote.[/quote]
For travelling purposes most countries accept negative PCR tests. This really shouldn’t be a consideration for you at this point

(I’m vaxxed but my kids just needed negative tests during a recent family trip we made .... and that’s at the ‘height’ of the pandemic panic right now)

Vaccine=free. PCR test=expensive. Not having to test and having to test=less travel for those who have to test. Obviously.

You didn’t follow my argument, wintertravel where they argued that kids should be vaccinated to protect immunosuppressed household members but didn’t argue that kids in poorer areas should be vaccinated to stop them taking it home to their more likely unvaccinated household members. Not strangers.

They suggest, without supporting evidence, that kids in poor areas are less likely to be given the vaccine so a better way to ensure less disruption to their education is to remove isolation. This will pretty much guarantee that the children in the poor areas catch covid, which they will then be bringing home to more likely unvaccinated households.

@UsedUpUsername

the inability to lead a normal life that is more harmful to people this age

They don’t need a vaccine to lead a normal life. They need a government that will make evidence-based decisions and we don’t have that. Teenagers are at little danger from this disease—restrictions need to take that into account.

Mandating a vaccine for a disease that doesn’t affect them just to get their rights back is straight up dystopian.

They DO need a vaccine to get back to normal life. 16/17 year olds have missed out on so much normal life to protect people who are more vulnerable than they are. How can anyone say it is then fair that the people they have protected over the last 16 months can now live a normal life, but the young people may not be able to travel or go to big events. The intergenerational unfairness is shocking!

But it is not just to get their rights back, but also to protect them from educational disruption next year and risk of long Covid.

They DO need a vaccine to get back to normal life

No they don’t. There are places where teenagers are living normally. No proof of vaccinations needed.

16/17 year olds have missed out on so much normal life to protect people who are more vulnerable than they are

We should never have asked this of them and it’s criminal to just let it continue (for no reason either)

young people may not be able to travel or go to big events

Ditch the idea of COVID passports and just let them go. It’s really that simple.

The issue with letting the virus run free was always the possible variants. Viruses become better at infecting the host. We could now be in a position were children are at risk. We didn't lock down to just protect the vulnerable. We locked down to stop mutations and because a lock down is more effective than ongoing major issues with people who are too Ill to work.

@Ponoka7

The issue with letting the virus run free was always the possible variants. Viruses become better at infecting the host. We could now be in a position were children are at risk. We didn't lock down to just protect the vulnerable. We locked down to stop mutations and because a lock down is more effective than ongoing major issues with people who are too Ill to work.

That may have been true in the past, but it isn't now as the govt is allowing Covid to run free and everybody I know is disabling Bluetooth in the app because it gives too many false notifications and not enough detail to enable people to assess whether they are actually at risk. What a fiasco!

@UsedUpUsername

They DO need a vaccine to get back to normal life

No they don’t. There are places where teenagers are living normally. No proof of vaccinations needed.

16/17 year olds have missed out on so much normal life to protect people who are more vulnerable than they are

We should never have asked this of them and it’s criminal to just let it continue (for no reason either)

young people may not be able to travel or go to big events

Ditch the idea of COVID passports and just let them go. It’s really that simple.

Travel is a bit more complicated, because US, Israel, half of Europe etc is now vaccinating 12-15s. So our teenagers will need to be vaccinated to travel to at least some of these places (if they are letting British people in).

Also, there are quite a number of vulnerable teenagers who do not yet have a vaccine, so even going to school is a challenge for them, let alone festivals.

We need vaccines for teenagers to be sorted out pronto, for any teen who is vulnerable first off.

@UsedUpUsername

They DO need a vaccine to get back to normal life

No they don’t. There are places where teenagers are living normally. No proof of vaccinations needed.

16/17 year olds have missed out on so much normal life to protect people who are more vulnerable than they are

We should never have asked this of them and it’s criminal to just let it continue (for no reason either)

young people may not be able to travel or go to big events

Ditch the idea of COVID passports and just let them go. It’s really that simple.

Anyone who thinks “it’s really that simple” is a bit simple. There’s the small matter of a large number of countries disagreeing with you, resulting in a refusal to let teenagers choose for themselves effectively amounting to a refusal to let them get on with their lives as they see fit and reducing their freedom to travel in the way vaccinated people can currently travel. You are not giving teenagers more freedom by denying them the right to ask for a vaccine, you are deliberately giving them fewer choices and less freedom. Nobody is suggesting under 18s be obliged to have the vaccine, but it’s a bit of a cheek to pretend you are not taking freedoms and choices away from them with the pretence it’s “that simple.” It’s not that simple to convince the rest of the world that they are wrong to be vaccinating their teenagers.

@Ponoka7

The issue with letting the virus run free was always the possible variants. Viruses become better at infecting the host. We could now be in a position were children are at risk. We didn't lock down to just protect the vulnerable. We locked down to stop mutations and because a lock down is more effective than ongoing major issues with people who are too Ill to work.

You’ll never stop mutations, sorry. That wasn’t happening since it left Wuhan.

Viruses in generally evolve to become less deadly but more infectious. The new variants look like they are evolving with that hypothesis.

And healthy children are not at risk and now that a substantial portion have had it (per serological studies) they will be well equipped to clear variants.

Travel is a bit more complicated, because US, Israel, half of Europe etc is now vaccinating 12-15s. So our teenagers will need to be vaccinated to travel to at least some of these places (if they are letting British people in)

I’ve travelled to countries that vaccinate teens. They generally accept negative PCR tests (one even accepted proof you recovered from COVID) and I expect this to be the case moving forward (you can imagine the huge equity issue with developing countries if not).

Also, there are quite a number of vulnerable teenagers who do not yet have a vaccine, so even going to school is a challenge for them, let alone festivals

A teen vulnerable to COVID would also be vulnerable to flu and even the common cold. What was done in the past for them?

We need vaccines for teenagers to be sorted out pronto, for any teen who is vulnerable first off

Only vulnerable children need them, under the guidance of their GP. Everyone else should get back to normal.

Anyone who thinks “it’s really that simple” is a bit simple

Nothing like ad hominem. Do better.

There’s the small matter of a large number of countries disagreeing with you

And yet, it’s still a minority opinion. Also the decision to vaccinate children in the US is quite controversial: www.wsj.com/amp/articles/cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-side-effects-hospitalization-kids-11626706868

reducing their freedom to travel in the way vaccinated people can currently travel

I’ve travelled to open countries and can tell you a negative PCR is usually enough if travelling with vaccinated parents (presumably they aren’t travelling abroad alone)

You are not giving teenagers more freedom by denying them the right to ask for a vaccine

Why would you give children a medical intervention they don’t need (children who do, in fact, need it are covered under current policy)?

you are deliberately giving them fewer choices and less freedom

It’s the COVID panic doing that one.

It’s not that simple to convince the rest of the world that they are wrong to be vaccinating their teenagers

Most countries in the rest of the world can’t even get their vulnerable/elderly vaccinated, which makes this conversation distasteful, to say the least.

@UsedUpUsername - and still you do not deal with the fact you pay for a PCR but not for a vaccine. Please do better. It is not “that simple” If refusing the vaccine to younger people is actually due to shortages/concern for the rest of the world.

As for vulnerable - why give the vaccine to healthy 18-40 year olds, @UsedUpUsername?

a negative PCR is usually enough if travelling with vaccinated parents (presumably they aren’t travelling abroad alone

We want to go to Malta. Not enough, no.

@UsedUpUsername - why in earth would a 16/17 year old not be travelling alone? Plenty used to quite happily.

'A teen vulnerable to COVID would also be vulnerable to flu and even the common cold. What was done in the past for them?'

Just thought this poster might fancy a nice

Imvho, the fact is there is no world scientific consensus on whether 12-18 year olds should be vaccinated where possible. Countries like the UK appear to have gone for the worst of all worlds approach, by refusing to vaccinate most 12-17 year olds and then punishing 17 year olds the minute they hit 18 if they haven’t ensured they get vaccinated within a very tiny window of opportunity, and doing far less than other developed countries to control cases in schools from September, instead indulging in a mass experiment to see how exam and other years are affected by pretending covid no longer exists and is of no threat whatsoever to young people.

Also, only an utterly incompetent government would change the basic rules on contact tracing in schools an entire week before lots of schools actually break up for the end of term.

[quote Walkaround]@UsedUpUsername - and still you do not deal with the fact you pay for a PCR but not for a vaccine. Please do better. It is not “that simple” If refusing the vaccine to younger people is actually due to shortages/concern for the rest of the world.[/quote]
Lol it is actually that simple. Get a PCR test, some countries like the US allow you to self-administer them too. That can be done on the cheap.

@UsedUpUsername - lol. It’s not that simple.

[quote Walkaround]@UsedUpUsername - why in earth would a 16/17 year old not be travelling alone? Plenty used to quite happily.[/quote]
Once we are out of ‘pandemic’ mode, sure. But then, a lot of these requirements will be dropped for the tourist dollar.

But I get it. You want to be mad.

@UsedUpUsername - vaccinating 12-17 year olds is part of pandemic mode. As you say, the world is in pandemic mode….

As for the end of pandemic mode, as you point out, @UsedUpUsername, given the low global vaccination rates, this mode looks set to last quite a long time.

It's remarkable how some posters think "What did they do before the pandemic?' is a gotcha. Health conditions didn't take a break for the pandemic. Plenty of people got ill, started new medication or had their condition worsen over the last 18 months.