UK Covid Experiment

[ArmsofOrion]

Has anyone been watching these talks on YouTube. Seems like the rest of the world thinks the Uk is crazy for lifting all restrictions and I agree with them.

For anyone who doesn’t have their head buried in the sand it makes a very interesting discussion, not much you can argue with.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=a4imfAwdFMQ

I'd like to see real people form part of these discussions from other parts of the world. Not privileged middle classes (again).

I am very amazed but no longer surprised in the English government let it rip herd immunity survival of the fittest pandemic gross negligent manslaughter experiment with the only mitigation of vaccination offers to all apart from those with medical complications and children.

In England I suspect requests to stay at home will only happen again when most not some of the hospitals are full with pandemic life saving emergencies. Other hospitals with capacity will hopefully continue to catch up with regular missed urgent operations and treatments and perhaps even hopefully some non urgent care. This is of course all subject to Covid hospitalisations and having the necessary staff available for meeting these stress testing requirements and not I’ll themselves

It is forever the core pandemic minimum of having a functioning NHS as the herd immunity lab experiment will continue as well as vaccination offered to the adult population. Children will be potential collateral damage as evident at all over crowded state schools removing all personal mitigation measures to facilitate optimal efficient super spreading for some sort of apparent but foolish herd immunity for children and their families.

Personal and civic duty of care personal risk mitigation measures will legally become optional in England as criminal emergency laws are removed despite guidance and government wish or hope for the populations to use common sense and be entrusted with our collected national health. That trust and misplaced confidence in the civic of duty common sense has so far resulted in masked divisions, a growing market in illegal fake Covid certificates, tests, and disability cards and lanyards just like the initial fake NHS IDs and lanyards at the start of the pandemic. Basically it is now your fault for getting yourself ill or causing illness to others and eventually fatalities of those with least health privilege. Vaccination helps but only to prevent fatalities (hopefully) but not infection and onwards continued super spreading. Without vaccination in this current pandemic landscape is probably like driving without speed limits and any car safety seat belt etc. It is unfortunate that some adults due to medical complications and children will not be afforded any vaccination protection.

I am also assuming irrespective of our travel restrictions many overseas nations will not permit mixing with British and in particular English visitors although it would be difficult for overseas immigration authorities to distinguish between home nation residents with identical UK GB & NI passports. Sensible overseas nations simply don’t agree nor appreciate nor accept our let it rip Johnson Delta variants herd immunity survival of the fittest experiment.

Just to add I am located in central London but restricted from mixing with family and friends in numerous nations overseas.

My family and friends overseas are astonished at our Covid world beating per capita fatalities data and the attitude of both the government and locals in being indifferent and blasé in implementing any scientifically agreed best personal civic duty of care practices. They are fully aware of our plague island and unique and shameful English exceptionalism entitlement I don’t care culture despite much acknowledgement of an otherwise decent tax payer funded national healthcare service with world class medical research in vaccination and sequencing etc.

We're staying at home now.

I won't be part of the mass infection experiment.

Yes. Have watched it and it is terrifying. Really horrible when you see what you're thinking yourself in a very amateur, common sense type way (which still leaves some scope that you are wrong and just don't know what you are talking about) confirmed by the world's most eminent scientists - and then some. Truly terrifying what they are reporting from Israel at the moment. And they are all jabbed with Pfizer.

I also made a joke in the 'tired of hysteria' thread about all the scientists being a bunch of hysterics and no one pounced on me so I think they took this as a serious comment.

Heaven help us.

Risk taker Johnson hoping to score the winning goal against covid feels like England hoping to win at football: if it happens, he would be a World king, but will it??

I noticed he has aged a lot in recent weeks, maybe he is working on another U-turn?

I can see the logic of opening up now. That's not to say it's definitely a brilliant idea but it's not straightforward, there are no "good" solutions.

We're going to have restrictions again in about a month. Boris is under pressure from his own party to lift restrictions for economic reasons. He's much too weak to stand up to them and he doesn't care if it all goes horribly wrong (well, even worse than it is already) as he'll just throw in the towel and go off to make his ex PM millions.

Sometimes I think he is taking everyone to the wire so they sack him, but I don't think anyone is in any hurry to replace him.

People moan when we have restrictions and refuse to follow them, and moan when they are being lifted 🤷‍♀️

How long do we wait? Vaccinated people are still ending up in hospital so that's not the answer, so what do we do? It's easy to criticise when your not the one making these decisions but no one is giving an alternative because we can't stay locked up forever.

Vaccinated people are getting sick and hospitalised but only the very elderly/those with underlying conditions/those dying of something else/some unvaccinated are actually DYING of Covid now (and a tiny minority of people who don't have antibodies or the vaccine doesn't work)

@LaurieFairyCake how can the vaccine not work for some people? Surely it should work the same way on everyone? It was never going to stop people from getting covid so I'm curious about how it's not worked for some people.

www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/strong-likelihood-there-are-more-dangerous-covid19-variants-to-come-who-warns/

I don't live in the UK. But honestly the UK is now the laughing stock of the world. Brexit now covid ....

@LaurieFairyCake

Vaccinated people are getting sick and hospitalised but only the very elderly/those with underlying conditions/those dying of something else/some unvaccinated are actually DYING of Covid now (and a tiny minority of people who don't have antibodies or the vaccine doesn't work)

Oh it’s only the elderly and those with underlying conditions. That’s ok then.

It's odd, didn't Israel do pretty much the same thing? I can't remember there being much criticism of that decision?

I can see that, on the face of it, it seems obvious that removing restrictions whilst cases are rising = an obviously terrible idea but when you take into account that all the modelling suggested an exit wave whenever we released restrictions, that some models suggested delaying the release could increase deaths due to the peak coinciding with winter viruses, that 90% of the adult population have antibodies, that damaging the economy reducing life expectancy, that delaying would coincide with schools returning, that hospitalisations and deaths are much, much lower than in previous waves etc, etc, etc it isn't completely clear cut.

There are no risk free options and there is logic behind the choice to release now.

Most people don't seem to care so it seems it will take another lockdown. It saddens me.

[quote mog27]@LaurieFairyCake how can the vaccine not work for some people? Surely it should work the same way on everyone? It was never going to stop people from getting covid so I'm curious about how it's not worked for some people. [/quote]
Everyone has different immune systems that work in different ways. Some have suppressed immune systems so their body doesn’t provide enough antibodies when they have the vaccine. It’s an issue with all vaccines.

@mog27

How long do we wait? Vaccinated people are still ending up in hospital so that's not the answer, so what do we do? It's easy to criticise when your not the one making these decisions but no one is giving an alternative because we can't stay locked up forever.

It is not how long or whether we need to wait longer until full opening up BUT apart from a few business sectors such as indoor large audience entertainment and sports etc - we never actually had a globally adopted restrictive lockdown. Many comparable overseas first world advanced nations required documentation for limited permitted reasons for leaving homes and evening curfews etc. We in the UK never had any necessity to be confirmed to our homes under house arrest nor challenged when out and about at any time of the day. There has been a relaxed distinct lack of Covid criminality enforcement apart from a few fines for the usual illegal mass underground parties and raves for the bored and restless from another non pandemic planet causing a nuisance and perfect conditions to test herd immunity from the super spreading.

Surely the way forward is to moderate behaviour being aware of our potential Covid footprint and test, test, test to return to open society allowing the ill to be identified and treated away from infecting others. We can open fully if we are constantly testing to know our Covid status at any time and indeed go out and about to mix but doing so with all usual sensible personal and civic duty of care risk mitigation measures. A mask as worn by a surgeon won’t kill but that can’t be guaranteed without one! No one is asked to wear a mask in the open air next to no one for hours consecutively as it’s just a temporary requirement indoors or in a public transportation carriage if others are in close breathing space proximity.

If we constantly test and know who is safe or potentially dangerous- we don’t need to have more restrictions unless the bare bones essential healthcare system is at capacity. More lives will be lost and others will inevitably be subject to long Covid disabilities until the virus and all its new mutated variants can be checked somewhat with new vaccination intervention.

Yes, I’m alright Jack!
Fed up of the utterly selfish comments I keep reading on here. Disgraceful how people are happy to write off someone else’s life. Long as you and your family are ok!

The lockdown vibes on this one is strong!

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

I think the issue I have is that masks inside and regular testing are in place now and cases are rising. If we want cases to reduce we will need to increase restrictions beyond those currently in place and I'm not sure there would be the will to do that when 90% of the adult population has antibodies.

@ArmsofOrion

Yes, I’m alright Jack! Fed up of the utterly selfish comments I keep reading on here. Disgraceful how people are happy to write off someone else’s life. Long as you and your family are ok!

Actually no my family are not OK. My parents have been thrown under a bus because its only Covid that matters.......

Unfortunately, announcing ‘freedom day’ gave people the impression it was all coming to an end. People let their guard down. That plus large scale events being allowed to take place and here we are again.

@ArmsofOrion

Yes, I’m alright Jack! Fed up of the utterly selfish comments I keep reading on here. Disgraceful how people are happy to write off someone else’s life. Long as you and your family are ok!

Completely agree. I keep hearing my friends in real life echoing the same. Not sure how it came to this.