UK Covid Experiment

[ArmsofOrion]

Has anyone been watching these talks on YouTube. Seems like the rest of the world thinks the Uk is crazy for lifting all restrictions and I agree with them.

For anyone who doesn’t have their head buried in the sand it makes a very interesting discussion, not much you can argue with.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=a4imfAwdFMQ

Bar the filtration systems, both my kid's schools were doing all that. They haven't had many covid cases but still had loads of kids off due to isolations and staff isolations.
Are you aghast at just the UK or also the other states in the US like Florida etc? Not being goady, genuinely question.

Genuine question: didn't I read at the start of all this that the virus would mutate into less dangerous strains as it developed? More transmissable but less deadly for most people (although of course the rest of the people are as important)? Because the virus wants to survive and so can't kill off its hosts?

My DS's school hasn't had a single case of covid and no bubbles required to isolate. We've been very lucky so far.

@Sunshinegirl82

The U.K. just really isn't comparable to the states. Are you from the U.K.? Have you been here?

We are very densely populated (about 8 times more populated than the US). Some schools in small towns just wouldn't have the number of alternative buildings/spaces available.

We could reintroduce mask wearing in schools (it was only dropped a few weeks ago) although given that they break up for the Summer holidays in a week there doesn't seem much point now.

Lol yes I'm from the UK, I was educated there, and my OH was a teacher there. The UK is not unique.

I know, I'm not sure where I suggested it was?

I just wondered if you were speaking from a place of having actually been here/lived here or just from what you could ascertain from the news etc.

@falafellala

Bar the filtration systems, both my kid's schools were doing all that. They haven't had many covid cases but still had loads of kids off due to isolations and staff isolations. Are you aghast at just the UK or also the other states in the US like Florida etc? Not being goady, genuinely question.

Yes I'm aghast at Florida but I don't have loved ones living there who I am worried about.

Being in the same category as Florida is pretty appalling.

@Sunshinegirl82

I know, I'm not sure where I suggested it was?

I just wondered if you were speaking from a place of having actually been here/lived here or just from what you could ascertain from the news etc.

As someone who's lived in both England and New England, I can see plenty of things England could have done better, but chose not to.

I can see the logic but... being CEV the thought of going into an office with no windows (so no ventilation), no masks, no distancing and unvaccinated people is really, really not appealing to me. Especially with no clue if being immunocompromised the vaccine has worked

Thankfully my boss seems happy to keep me home but I will be using occupational health otherwise. My consultant has advised FFP2 mask and not going back in

But how many CEV people are in the same boat? Covid tore through our office a year ago, and it could well happen again

I'm not suggesting we are in the same category as Florida...
I

@Sunshinegirl82

The U.K. just really isn't comparable to the states. Are you from the U.K.? Have you been here?

We are very densely populated (about 8 times more populated than the US). Some schools in small towns just wouldn't have the number of alternative buildings/spaces available.

We could reintroduce mask wearing in schools (it was only dropped a few weeks ago) although given that they break up for the Summer holidays in a week there doesn't seem much point now.

But you could keep masks in the places that those students will be over the summer. Shops, cinemas, anywhere that groups congregate. Given that you know this is the population where it is spreading most...

But no, apparently the only option is to abandon everything.

But you must accept that the U.K. having a population density of about 650 people per square mile compared with Maine's 50 per square mile does make it a tad more tricky?

There are hundreds of things this government have done wrong both during the pandemic and more widely, I'm just not convinced that this is necessarily one of them.

All the options are pretty shit, this one may be the least shit. I can see that there is logic to it.

@Sunshinegirl82

But you must accept that the U.K. having a population density of about 650 people per square mile compared with Maine's 50 per square mile does make it a tad more tricky?

There are hundreds of things this government have done wrong both during the pandemic and more widely, I'm just not convinced that this is necessarily one of them.

All the options are pretty shit, this one may be the least shit. I can see that there is logic to it.

I'm going to assume you haven't been to Maine. We have huge empty tracts and a much more densely populated coast which is comparable to UK suburbs - in fact it's a lot like where I last lived in the UK. Our schools are as small as 50 and as big as 6000.

New England also has cities like Boston which are directly comparable to UK cities.

We could keep masks as mandatory (although we have masks in those places now and they are doing very little if anything to stop spread). The SAGE guidance indicated that mandating mask use did not improve the impact of masks on spread (essentially people have to be motivated to use them properly for them to have maximum effect).

Most shops and public places are asking people to keep wearing masks so I suspect there won't be a huge change next week in that respect.

@Sunshinegirl82

We could keep masks as mandatory (although we have masks in those places now and they are doing very little if anything to stop spread). The SAGE guidance indicated that mandating mask use did not improve the impact of masks on spread (essentially people have to be motivated to use them properly for them to have maximum effect).

Most shops and public places are asking people to keep wearing masks so I suspect there won't be a huge change next week in that respect.

Given that masks and distancing are not happening in schools, where most infection appears to be happening, it's a little disingenuous to claim that they don't do anything

Especially given that they have worked very well in schools elsewhere.

I have to eat dinner - this thread really has shown how many options there are that the UK has chosen not to take.

Good luck.

Masks were being worn in schools. I suspect they will be worn by a lot of people in the weeks to come as well.

Truly terrifying what they are reporting from Israel at the moment. And they are all jabbed with Pfizer.

You mean the three deaths a day, right?
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/

I would say they don't do anything (I'm not anti mask) just that with delta everywhere anyway, opening everything up but keeping masks won't do very much. It will slow down some infections a bit. It won't be enough to reduce cases or even stabilise them.

If there was an advantage to a mild slow down that doesn't impact overall infection numbers then fair enough, but I'm not convinced there is.

In any event it's largely a moot point because I don't think mask use will significantly decrease in the next few weeks/months in any event.

I think @ZZTopGuitarSolo has it right.

It's the attitude of 'we've done all we could and so now we'll just drop every precaution' when the UK hasn't, and from the get-go you've had a feckless leader who the rest of the world is looking on at going WTAF

I'm in Aus and our PM ScoMo (also known as Scotty from Marketing) has attempted similar appalling ideas as BJ but thank fuck our Premieres (who run the State's) are just better human beings and not listened much to ScoMo.

Apart from Gladys in Sydney, who's almost losing it in NSW and needs to step up. Victoria did a long stint last year to protect the rest of Aus and this is really disappointing (considering we're in another lockdown now because of NSW)

@ArmsofOrion

Yes, I’m alright Jack! Fed up of the utterly selfish comments I keep reading on here. Disgraceful how people are happy to write off someone else’s life. Long as you and your family are ok!

Completely agree @ArmsofOrion. I can understand the other side, that there is more than just covid deaths to consider, the economy and its knock on effects, the devastation of people's livelihoods and people struggling with mental health. But there have been some disgustingly ignorant comments on here, I'm alright jack, horriblly othering comments. I feel ashamed of mumsnet.

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

Do you remember the UK reopening last year? Then closing again because of the UK strain?

We reopened too, and we ended up with the same UK strain, but because we had better mitigations in place we did not have to go back into lockdown. Our schools stayed open, our hospitals coped and our children got their education.

So now we are looking at this Sept and school reopening with Delta spreading. We are offering vaccinations to over-12s and requiring unvaccinated students to continue with mitigations such as mask wearing and distancing and ventilation.

We are not throwing all caution to the wind and declaring everything reopened forever and fuck the consequences, as the UK appears to be doing.

I think you are getting the UK and England mixed up .Yes everything is opening up in England but that isn’t the case in other parts of the UK for instance Scotland where mask wearing and social distancing remain as do nightclub closures .

Yes I'm just lazily equating England and the UK which is inaccurate.

Clearly my post has been misunderstood by Wikdewoodz

The people that are dying of and WITH Covid are the very elderly and/or those who had underlying conditions - they were dying anyway because they're, you know 84 and it's their time

We are recording people who died with a positive Covid test - not actually dying OF Covid so of course some of them are still dying of cancer/heart disease/stroke/very old age are still going to die - having a Covid vaccination doesn't prevent death of being old

The unvaccinated who are younger - yes, some of them are going to die - that's statistics

And worst of all the very, VERY small number of people who can't get the vaccine but will still die

The point is that statistically people die of respiratory illnesses every year - flu, pneumonia, and now Covid - occasionally and in small numbers younger people with those will die - every year I read about a healthy 16 year old who's suddenly died of flu

I am wary of what lies ahead to be honest. I work for an Ambulance Trust and we have been told that despite the relaxation of regulations we are all to continue as before (working from home if non front line) wearing masks to all ambulance stations (including volunteers and contractors carrying out work) .

We had a communication telling all staff that we along with other ambulance trusts in the UK are on high alert and couldnt relax the rules in the way that others are doing. I am releived to be honest because every day I hear of someone new with COVID, it took my colleague 3 hours to do her normal 30 min train journey home as so many traindrivers were isolating. This is goiing to get worse I fear. I dont know what the answer is though to be honest as we cant just stay home or not interact for ever, I just wish they had waited until a few more people had been double vaccinated.

@mog27 some people will not produce antibodies to certain vaccines. In some cases they know why, in other they don’t. I needed a vaccine to do a healthcare course at uni. Three times I had it and I never produced antibodies. My daughter had to have her pre school jabs twice as she hadn’t produced antibodies to the first set. She did the second set. Obviously we had other health issues going on to even find out these things.