France pulls out the big guns!

[NotPregnantJustChubs]

I live in France and Macron has just made a speech saying that from the end of July, vaccination or a negative test is going to be compulsory for cultural and entertainment venues. From August, it’ll be compulsory for cafes and restaurants too. This applies to all 12+.

PCR tests will become paid as of September, to encourage vaccination.

I’m already vaccinated, thankfully, and I do think it’s necessary to contain the delta variant. But wowza, I’m waiting to hear the backlash in the morning. Macron is up for reelection next year as well, they must be very desperate to contain this…

@SupermanWithTheGreyHair

You’ll just keep getting your petty digs in any way you can. How sad this is what some people do when they can’t accept others choices about their bodies.

To be fair, the choice not to get vaccinated does have repercussions on society as a whole, because of the need for as high a percentage as possible to reach overall herd immunity... The choice to get vaccinated benefits not just the one getting vaccinated, but also those around them. By the way I am not talking abut medical reasons for being unable to or advised against getting the vaccine.

Herd immunity isn’t possible with the delta variant. Double vaccinated people are getting infected at higher rates than with previous strains.

To be fair, the choice not to get vaccinated does have repercussions on society as a whole, because of the need for as high a percentage as possible to reach overall herd immunity...

Individuals still have a right to choose.

I didn’t see much evidence of this kindness and caring ‘we’ve all got to help each other out’ attitude pre covid. Many people couldn’t give a fuck about others until it affects them. That’s what we’re seeing here.

@bumbleymummy

Herd immunity isn’t possible with the delta variant. Double vaccinated people are getting infected at higher rates than with previous strains.

What about previously infected people? Is there any data on the number of people who have been re-infected with Covid?

This is data on reinfection up to the end of May.

www.gov.uk/government/news/new-national-surveillance-of-possible-covid-19-reinfection-published-by-phe

“The current data shows that there is a low risk of reinfection with SARS-CoV-2. There were 15,893 possible reinfections with SARS-CoV-2 identified up to 30 May 2021 in England throughout the pandemic, out of nearly 4 million people with confirmed infections. This is equivalent to around 0.4% cases becoming reinfected.“

If I find anything more recent I’ll post it.

@bumbleymummy

Herd immunity isn’t possible with the delta variant. Double vaccinated people are getting infected at higher rates than with previous strains.

All the more reason to do testing instead if not vaccinated But no to that as well apparently....

@samthebordercollie
The reinfection rate is very low. You don’t even need to see numbers to know that as our government and media would be shouting it off the rooftops to scare us all if there was even a slither of a chance that reinfection was very likely!
@bumbleymummy has shred statistics.

I was listening to LBC yesterday and heard that in Israel 56% of new cases are in those double jabbed while 1% is in those who have previously had covid. So it seems that natural immunity gives better protection than being double jabbed! But for some reason this seems to be ignored.

It may be that there is such a high vaccination rate (and so early on), that there were few numbers of the population that did get Covid. That 1% may be double vaccinated as well, and the rates of 1:56 may be on a par. For every 56 people who are double vaccinated, maybe only 1 Israeli (maybe double vaccinated as well) had Covid previously.

I don't know if that is the case, but there may be more relevant issues than what we see in the statistics as presented.

Thanjs@bumbleymummy - it will be interesting to see the June and July stats.
@SoOvethis those are very interesting figures from Israel.
I have my passe sanitaire due to having Covid in May. I can't be vaccinated until November so have a few months grace.
I hope the French government changes to the UK government's strategy of not vaccinating all 12-18 year olds,

[quote SoOvethis]@samthebordercollie
The reinfection rate is very low. You don’t even need to see numbers to know that as our government and media would be shouting it off the rooftops to scare us all if there was even a slither of a chance that reinfection was very likely!
@bumbleymummy has shred statistics.

I was listening to LBC yesterday and heard that in Israel 56% of new cases are in those double jabbed while 1% is in those who have previously had covid. So it seems that natural immunity gives better protection than being double jabbed! But for some reason this seems to be ignored.[/quote]
I listened to LBC yesterday and wanted to talk more about it

It was about the hybrid model of vaccination and natural immunity which we have.

@MarshaBradyo
I am so frustrated that it is not being spoken more about or even recognised. Also the whole magic 6 months number of antibodies suddenly becoming useless! 🤯
I have said on several other threads. I was sick last March 2020 and still have very high antibody levels as of 6/7 weeks ago. That’s 15 months in!

@Cailleach1

It may be that there is such a high vaccination rate (and so early on), that there were few numbers of the population that did get Covid. That 1% may be double vaccinated as well, and the rates of 1:56 may be on a par. For every 56 people who are double vaccinated, maybe only 1 Israeli (maybe double vaccinated as well) had Covid previously.

I don't know if that is the case, but there may be more relevant issues than what we see in the statistics as presented.

Exactly!

@Cailleach1
I didn’t give more figures as I can’t remember them in detail but the conclusion was that when you take into consideration how many have been vaccinated versus not. You would apparently expect there to be 9% reinfection rate while it was actually 1% so therefore it seemed natural immunity offers better protection.
You can listen to it on catch up on LBC yesterday at 1pm. It was during the first hour.

Found this on Israel, it is CB only preliminary data but suggests 1% of cases in Israel are in reinfected people compared to 40% in vaccinated

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/are-recovered-covid-patients-more-protected-than-the-vaccinated/

@bumbleymummy

Herd immunity isn’t possible with the delta variant. Double vaccinated people are getting infected at higher rates than with previous strains.

Is the illness milder, or/and are there less fatalities when those fully vaccinated catch Covid, though?

@Cailleach1
@sleepwouldbenice

I just listened to it again so I can be accurate with what I am quoting

56% of Israelis are vaccinated which makes up roughly the same proportion of daily cases. On the other hand only 1% of daily cases of people are of people who previously tested positive for Covid despite those who previously tested positive for Covid making up 9% of the population. Only 1% of them are the daily cases. What this tells us is that most of the severe hospitalised Covid patients who are also vaccinated tells us that natural immunity in Israel is proving more resilient than the immunity provided by vaccination immunity against the delta variant.”

And just to make clear he says that doesn’t mean don’t have the vaccine. Just pointing out that natural acquired immunity is as valid if not stronger than vaccination which several studies are coming out with.

Some people just don’t like to hear this and would rather ignore it.

What concerns me more than the virus (or any virus) is the fact that a lot of you here would fit right in a dictatorship. "Just following orders".

@SoOvethis.

Thanks, I'll have a listen. On the face of it, and according to Reuters, Israeli population is ca. 9 million. Ca. 850,000 had Covid, with 9,400 deaths. So roughly 9/10% had Covid.

That link is interesting. Tentative, though. It states that experts conclude having had Covid already gives you protection, but others say that (this wave I presume) Covid hasn't (reached?) spread in the ultra Orthodox communities as before, and which accounted for previously high numbers of infections.

Scratch my last post. I was comparing vaccinated against unvaccinated with no previous infection.

@SoOvethis do you have a link to the radio programme?

It is interesting, soOver.

With the advent of the Delta variant, I now know many more people who have had caught Covid this time around, than at any time in the last year and a half.

@samthebordercollie

You need to download the LBC app and click on catchup. Then choose Saturday 17th nov 13:00-16:00 Majed Nawaz.

Everyone I know caught Covid last February and March. I don’t know anyone of those who have caught it again. We have moved since to an area where it didn’t infect that many people last year and all those who are double jabbed catching it around here believe they have never had covid before.
I am sure there will be the odd case here and there that have had covid twice but nothing like the double jabbed who are all coming down with it who didn’t have Covid before.

56% of Israelis are vaccinated which makes up roughly the same proportion of daily cases.

Is he suggesting that vaccination offers zero protection against catching the disease - that seems unlikely as it's contrary to all the other information we have. Old Maajid seems a bit confused in the way he delivers those stats so I wouldn't be surprised if he's mistaken.

Here are some data from the UK. Remember vaccination was never supposed to prevent infection - it's why we were all supposed to carry on wearing masks. It was supposed to reduce the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation and death, which we know it is doing. And as it turned out, even though it wasn't the main goal, vaccination does also reduce the chance of infection.

covid.joinzoe.com/post/risk-covid-after-vaccine

Data from America, where some states have much higher percentage of fully vaccinated than Israel, suggests that the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) do work very well.

It's the less vaccinated states and the unvaccinated Americans who are being hit hard by Covid now.

Almost 100% of the deaths in the US are in the unvaccinated.

@Tealightsandd
Do you know if those unvaccinated all had had covid before? Are there numbers for that?

@crocidura
I don’t quite see the logic you applied there. Basically it’s roughly 56% of daily cases. So today there were 540 cases so that means roughly 302 of them might be fully vaccinated. That’s not the same as saying there is 0 protection. And who knows how sick the people are getting? Maybe the protection is just enough to not make them seriously ill as opposed to stopping them getting the virus at all.
I think you will find he is very far from confused. He is a very intelligent and articulate person. He seems to always make sure he has ducks lined up before stating his opinions.