France pulls out the big guns!

[NotPregnantJustChubs]

I live in France and Macron has just made a speech saying that from the end of July, vaccination or a negative test is going to be compulsory for cultural and entertainment venues. From August, it’ll be compulsory for cafes and restaurants too. This applies to all 12+.

PCR tests will become paid as of September, to encourage vaccination.

I’m already vaccinated, thankfully, and I do think it’s necessary to contain the delta variant. But wowza, I’m waiting to hear the backlash in the morning. Macron is up for reelection next year as well, they must be very desperate to contain this…

"my body, my choice" is the most stupid way of thinking that you can control what happens to you when you don't actually have any control. If you go to a doctor and they give you antibiotics for an infection you don't control anything. You either take them or could end up in hospital. If you don't believe in taking drugs to control your diabetes, you end up dead. If you don't vaccinate your newborn and catches whooping cough, diphtheria and polio and dies, ce la vie.

If you have cancer and doctors recommend a treatment you either do it or you die.

All of us seek treatment from doctors when something goes wrong. Covid is a new virus, which is not going to be different from the standard vaccines of rubella, diphtheria, whooping cough, etc.....

It blows my mind that anyone thinks the inevitable step 2 is banning abortion when step 1 is, we're fighting a virus that spreads most readily indoors, so you need to either get vaccinated or test negative if you want to access certain non essential places. Especially when we're talking about a country where some vaccinations are already mandatory and abortion is still legal. It's quite the jump.

Also noteworthy that it is (some states of) the 'freedom country' where vaccines or any government control over the individual is most frowned upon that is at the moment trying to use Handmaids Tale as instruction manual.

Using reasonable measures to get a pandemic under control has nothing to do with punishing pregnant women who do not want to be pregnant.

Quite a few posters keep saying that it's only about going to a restaurant, not for anything essential. That's not the case, it also covers hospitals, long distance travel (domestic) and shopping centres (and for now that seems to include supermarkets that are incorporated into shopping centre, something very common here so it would affect a lot of people's access to their supermarket):

www.connexionfrance.com/index.php/French-news/Health-pass-extended-more-vaccination-Macron-s-anti-Covid-measures

"Health pass required for all aged 12 and above to enter events of over 50 people from July 21. This will be expanded to cafés, restaurants, shopping centres, hospitals, retirement homes, planes, trains and coaches for long-distance journeys from the beginning of August (to be confirmed by parliamentary vote). Long-distance travel concerned will include TGV and Intercités trains, inter-regional coach trips and all domestic and international flights. Local trains, buses or trams will not be concerned."

Also a couple of posters seemed to dismiss the idea that mandatory vaccines for the whole population is being considered. Another quote from the above article:

"We will no doubt need to consider "compulsory vaccination for all in France," warned President Macron, but he said that for now the government is choosing to put "confidence" in people to get vaccinated voluntarily "as soon as possible""

Shocking 😔 How can anyone support this?

@Alondra

"my body, my choice" is the most stupid way of thinking that you can control what happens to you when you don't actually have any control. If you go to a doctor and they give you antibiotics for an infection you don't control anything. You either take them or could end up in hospital. If you don't believe in taking drugs to control your diabetes, you end up dead. If you don't vaccinate your newborn and catches whooping cough, diphtheria and polio and dies, ce la vie.

If you have cancer and doctors recommend a treatment you either do it or you die.

All of us seek treatment from doctors when something goes wrong. Covid is a new virus, which is not going to be different from the standard vaccines of rubella, diphtheria, whooping cough, etc.....

That doesn't work. You still have a choice in all of those things. People can and do decline any treatment for cancer. No medical treatment is ever forced (except for in emergencies where consent can not be given, or in certain circumstances in mental health).

Not having the vaccine does not mean you will end up with Covid, or end up dead. That is fear mongering nonsense and needs to stop.

Not having the vaccine does not mean you will end up with Covid, or end up dead. That is fear mongering nonsense and needs to stop.

Tell that to my SIL. We haven’t spoken to her (and won’t again), since she made my 7 year old hysterical after asking her how she would like a bedroom decorated in beer house, as Mummy and Daddy would die this winter because they are too silly to have an injection. She was serious.

*her house. And she couldn’t see what she said wrong. she was “telling it like it is and being the responsible one” apparenly.

@Arsebucket

Not having the vaccine does not mean you will end up with Covid, or end up dead. That is fear mongering nonsense and needs to stop.

Tell that to my SIL. We haven’t spoken to her (and won’t again), since she made my 7 year old hysterical after asking her how she would like a bedroom decorated in beer house, as Mummy and Daddy would die this winter because they are too silly to have an injection. She was serious.

Fucking hell! I don't blame you for no longer talking to her. How disgusting to talk to your child in such a way. I hope you managed to eventually calm your DD down.

@XenoBitch eventually. She was distraught as you can imagine. I’ve never been so angry. PIL are the same, they are certain dh is going to die from covid now. Even though we’ve all had it, including the baby and luckily it was just a week or so of a bit of a cough and some nausea for a couple of days.

They are shooting themselves in the foot. France has a very active anti vaxx community, and everyone in that community knows where you can find a doctor who will prescribe you vaccines, put them down the sink and sign your child’s book so they can go to school...

If they make the vaccines mandatory the same will happen with them.

France operates by having far too many rules and a policy of turning a blind eye when they are blatantly ignored. I doubt this will be the exception.

I am pro vaccine and double jabbed but I completely disagree with this approach. The french government said they would never make vaccination compulsory and now they have made it compulsory in everything but name. You need it to go to hospital, take a train or visit a supermarket.

Its cowardly not to just call it what it is.

I disagree with forcing anti vaxxers to take the vaccine no matter how frustrating they may be.

@CatherinedeBourgh

Correct. French doctors are corrupt and many of them are anti vaxxers themselves

90,000 pregnant women have received the Pfizer vaccine in the US with no negative impact observed.

Care homes contain those in the population that are most vulnerable to covid and are likely, at least in some cases, to have reduced protection from the vaccine. Those in care homes have a right not to be put at risk by their carers choices. Those operating care homes have a duty of care to their residents. Without legislation we would see a raft of employment tribunal cases brought by employees who have been dismissed for refusing to have the vaccine and employers would be between a rock and a hard place trying to balance their obligations to both employees and residents without clear guidance.

How do you propose we balance the various competing rights of the individuals involved? The saying "your right to swing your fist stops at my face" is quite apt here. How do we square that circle?

France operates by having far too many rules and a policy of turning a blind eye when they are blatantly ignored.

This is so true - as rule-following Brit I find this one of the hardest things to get used to. The vaccination organisation was exactly like this: the government very clearly set out who was allowed to get vaccinated (priority groups) and when, while everyone knew that if you fibbed on the booking system and turned up at the vaccination centre, they’d jab anyone, no questions asked. The government was perfectly aware but turned a blind eye to it as long as vax rates kept going up and they could stick to the official “priority groups only” line.

I"m beginning to doubt some here with fancy names actually live in France.

First time I've heard sweeping statements about French docs being corrupt and systematic dumping of drugs so I'm sensing a high level of BS in some of the posts.

In the several decades we've been on France the have been absolutely straight and honest and they are certainly not antivax.

As an aside it was good to see our local big city vaccinodrome was rammed this AM...

@notimagain
🤨
My French partner is anti vax and a Frexiter. He also supports the gilets jaunes and he has friends who are a couple and have a child, and these people are also anti vax. They have told me themselves that their child was "vaccinated" (not) to get him into school.

This is a working class region though. Before I moved here I lived in a "nice" area in England and had never spoken to a Brexiter.

I think your problem is you live in an echo chamber. They exist in all countries.

@CatherinedeBourgh

They are shooting themselves in the foot. France has a very active anti vaxx community, and everyone in that community knows where you can find a doctor who will prescribe you vaccines, put them down the sink and sign your child’s book so they can go to school...

If they make the vaccines mandatory the same will happen with them.

France operates by having far too many rules and a policy of turning a blind eye when they are blatantly ignored. I doubt this will be the exception.

If that is happening it's appalling. Those doctors should be tracked down and struck off.

French doctors are corrupt

This has to be one of the most sweeping generalisations I've read on MN.
And that's saying something.

I doubt the docs see it as corruption, more like civil disobedience.

Many people are uncomfortable with forcing people to do things against their will, regardless of whether it is for their own good (which in any case is not necessarily the case for vaccination, it is more for the good of society). Some of those people are doctors, and choose to help those who do not wish to submit.

The fact that I would choose to vaccinate does not mean I would impose it on anyone else any more than the fact that I would not terminate a pregnancy means that I would prevent anyone else from doing so. And I would equally oppose any government’s attempts to do so, even though they will have no impact on my actions.

So ... are French doctors corrupt, as stated previously?

How they view themselves is another matter.

At least some French doctors are willing to break the letter of the law. Others doubtless aren’t.

But in a country where the tax officer told me I had to lie on my tax form, and not to worry as it wasn’t fraud because they expected me to do it, I doubt that would be considered corrupt.

I see.

Every doctor I've had dealings with in France is pro-vaccination.

I've met several GPs and ER docs since being here, as well as a few specialists. They don't have identical opinions or approaches but every one of them has been very 'by the book'.

The only medical people I've experienced who have even been open minded about alternative options (like homeopathy) have been independent midwives.

So it's really not factual to say doctors are all corrupt in France