New Boris Statement: Where is this going?

[DadAManger]

‘We recommend masks but only recommend them’
‘Deaths will increase and we may reach 100,000 new cases per day’
‘We must open now and if not now, when?’
‘The slower we take it, the smaller number of people will die’
‘Return to the office of you can, otherwise keep working from home’

Just before Boris spoke, there was a BBC piece claiming that 10-20% of all Covid cases (mild, without symptoms, or otherwise) will be long-Covid cases of some sort or another. Now there a million long-Covid cases.

Are we aiming for herd immunity? Anyone else think this is going to be confusing for most and lead to a default setting of ‘normal’? Where is this going?

@Tinydancer321 excellent posts and I totally agree.

As the cases and inevitable rise in hospital cases rise, OTs, Physios, outpatient staff, elective surgery staff will again be redeployed to Covid wards

Wearing a mask and social distancing is a small price to pay for the general public ( I appreciate SD has been devastating to some businesses) to avoid the impact on NHS care

Wearing a mask and social distancing is a small price to pay for the general public ( I appreciate SD has been devastating to some businesses) to avoid the impact on NHS care

Doesn’t this contradict - SD has a big impact on many businesses which flows through entire economy and education

On masks it looks like places are taking decisions to keep them in many cases. Whether people will we’ll find out. But if as many want to as appear on here or in polls then they can keep wearing them.

Wearing a mask and social distancing is a small price to pay for the general public ( I appreciate SD has been devastating to some businesses) to avoid the impact on NHS care

But it's not enough. We're already at 40,000 daily cases, even WITH masks and SD. Just keeping masks and SD will continue to harm business and the economy and won't stop the NHS being inundated.

If you want to "save" the NHS, i.e. stop the growth in infections and start getting numbers down again, we need to reverse relaxations and start closing things down again, i.e. foreign travel, pubs, restaurants, gyms, hairdressers, non essential retail.

Is that what people really want.

Keeping masks and SD will simply delay the NHS being swamped, maybe by only a few weeks. It that really worth knackering the economy, having to borrow a few hundred more billion to pay for furlough etc., bankruptcies and suicides amongst business owners, etc??

Wearing a mask and social distancing is a small price to pay for the general public ( I appreciate SD has been devastating to some businesses) to avoid the impact on NHS care

It's not just 'some businesses'. It's whole industries.

Transport, tourism, hospitality, leisure, the arts, culture, and more. None of these are financially viable with SD. And maybe not exactly 'industries', but SD has severe impacts on education, religious worship, sport and so many other activities which are part of normal life.

So, no it's not really a 'small price to pay' if it's going on indefinitely. The industries I mentioned above account for millions of jobs, directly or indirectly. If those jobs are lost or their income slashed, that'sa vast chunk of tax income which won't be helping to support the NHS.

I think it's scary that what are in fact pretty severe restrictions are now seen as the default.

I can see everyone’s point of view but what is the answer? I’m sure I don’t know it.
Carry on and allow cases to rocket, risk variants that escape vaccines and overwhelm the NHS?
Survival of the fittest?

@GreatBigBeautifulTommorow

I can see everyone’s point of view but what is the answer? I’m sure I don’t know it. Carry on and allow cases to rocket, risk variants that escape vaccines and overwhelm the NHS? Survival of the fittest?

There is always going to be a risk of new 'variants'. Wearing a manky piece of flimy cotton over your face in Tesco's or placing tables a metre apart in the restaurant isn't going to change that.

And who's going to pay for the NHS if the economy is going to be thrashed indefinitely? Just to be 'safe'?

Carry on and allow cases to rocket, risk variants that escape vaccines and overwhelm the NHS? Survival of the fittest?

Yes, that's this summer's experiment.

The risk of a new Variant is just that bit higher with 100000 cases a day as opposed to 1000, don't you think @IcedPurple?

@NannyAndJohn

The risk of a new Variant is just that bit higher with 100000 cases a day as opposed to 1000, don't you think *@IcedPurple*?

The same number of cases which you confidently and obsessively predicted would happen 4 weeks ago? Up and down this forum, with great certainty and enthusiasm?

With billions across the world not vaccinated (and many years before anything close to most them will be) case numbers in the U.K. are the tiniest drop in the largest ocean.

There will be new variants regardless.

The same number of cases which you confidently and obsessively predicted would happen 4 weeks ago? Up and down this forum, with great certainty and enthusiasm?

Pwhitty and Vallence have both endorsed those figures. Case numbers are doubling every 9-11 days (ish- depends which source you look, Vallence said 9).

We have gone from 2 doublings away from 100,000 cases to 1 doubling away.

Last time we were here was approx December 2020, where lockdown topped it off at about 60,000 new a day. We are doing the opposite of going into lockdown. I think only a fool would bet against substantial rises

9% hospitalisation rate of 60,000 is 5,400 people
2% rate in 100,000 is 2000 people.

But if there is a further doubling (and do bear in mind the example of The Netherlands) then the numbers start to look uncomfortable tight.

@TheKeatingFive

With billions across the world not vaccinated (and many years before anything close to most them will be) case numbers in the U.K. are the tiniest drop in the largest ocean.

There will be new variants regardless.

If you think about what you ve just written, thats one of the most scariest things i ve heard in the last 16 months.

If you think about what you ve just written, thats one of the most scariest things i ve heard in the last 16 months.

Is that news to you? Seriously?

Pwhitty and Vallence have both endorsed those figures.

Then they were wrong.

Nanny repeatedly and confidently said that figure would be reached 4 weeks ago. She was wrong. She also repeatedly said it would be reached on the 19th. She's going to be wrong yet again.

No need to be a condescending twat is there?

Well I honestly didn’t mean to be, but I’m a bit gobsmacked this hasn’t occurred to people

I just got a notification on my phone from the NYT that mentions just 1% of the entire continent of Africa is vaccinated. And that isn’t changing quickly.

@IcedPurple. Those "manky masks" work.

What we know now is that the virus is actually transmitted via tiny airborne particles that, in enclosed spaces, stay in the air, waiting to infect someone else. So not only does a mask prevent airborne particles from being released into the air, a mask also prevents us from inhaling those airborne particles.

Say you’re infected but, like around 50 per cent of people who pass on the virus, have no symptoms, and you’re in an empty carriage on your own. If you take off your mask and spend ten minutes exhaling virus particles before getting off the train, you have filled that carriage with contaminated air and the next person that steps into it is at risk.

From here: www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/health/medical-matters/85902/why-it-would-be-madness-for-us-to-stop-wearing-face-masks-now

Apologies for the DM link. One of the Drs I follow wrote the article, so linked it in her twitter account.

@NannyAndJohn

The risk of a new Variant is just that bit higher with 100000 cases a day as opposed to 1000, don't you think *@IcedPurple*?

So I take it you want a proper lockdown to get infection numbers back to 1,000 do you? I.e. schools closed, non essential retail closed, no foreign travel, pubs/restaurants closed, attractions closed, etc etc? That's the only way to get infection numbers down again to your suggested low level.

[quote Doodlebug71]@IcedPurple. Those "manky masks" work.

What we know now is that the virus is actually transmitted via tiny airborne particles that, in enclosed spaces, stay in the air, waiting to infect someone else. So not only does a mask prevent airborne particles from being released into the air, a mask also prevents us from inhaling those airborne particles.

Say you’re infected but, like around 50 per cent of people who pass on the virus, have no symptoms, and you’re in an empty carriage on your own. If you take off your mask and spend ten minutes exhaling virus particles before getting off the train, you have filled that carriage with contaminated air and the next person that steps into it is at risk.

From here: www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/health/medical-matters/85902/why-it-would-be-madness-for-us-to-stop-wearing-face-masks-now

Apologies for the DM link. One of the Drs I follow wrote the article, so linked it in her twitter account.[/quote]
Wasn't mask wearing mandatory when the Alpha variant appeared? And when cases spread massively over the winter?

I'm not saying masks have no benefit, but acting as though mask wearing = no new 'variants' is silly.

Oh, and this seem remarkably familiar territory. Last year, Johnson ignored the warnings until the UK was in a mess. Now that a really nasty new variant is on the loose, able to transmit whilst people are just passing by each other, he's decided to ditch restrictions, and rely on people's good old common sense, and personal responsibility to keep everyone safe.

www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/06/28/infection-through-fleeting-contact-with-the-delta-variant-leads-to-lockdowns-across-australia/?sh=425fa1615d4f

@IcedPurple I'm not saying masks have no benefit, but acting as though mask wearing = no new 'variants' is silly. No one said that. Except you, right there.

You may also have noticed that there have been scores of people not wearing masks, for whatever reason. Refusing to, or just unable to. So unless mask wearing really is mandatory, and everyone wears one, it's a lot less effective.

People disparaging masks/face coverings as you did.... not helpful at all. Don't go spreading misinformation. It's bloody dangerous.

[quote Doodlebug71]**@IcedPurple* I'm not saying masks have no benefit, but acting as though mask wearing = no new 'variants' is silly.* No one said that. Except you, right there.

You may also have noticed that there have been scores of people not wearing masks, for whatever reason. Refusing to, or just unable to. So unless mask wearing really is mandatory, and everyone wears one, it's a lot less effective.

People disparaging masks/face coverings as you did.... not helpful at all. Don't go spreading misinformation. It's bloody dangerous.[/quote]
Saying that wearing a bit of cotton over your face isn't going to prevent the spread of new variants is not 'misinformation'. It's fact.

And I doubt my opinion is so influential that it's 'bloody dangerous'. But by all means report my post if you find it so 'bloody dangerous' and if 'spreading misinformation' offends you, I suggest you do the same for the poster above who has been obsessively posting wildly inaccurate predictions for weeks.

[quote Doodlebug71]Oh, and this seem remarkably familiar territory. Last year, Johnson ignored the warnings until the UK was in a mess. Now that a really nasty new variant is on the loose, able to transmit whilst people are just passing by each other, he's decided to ditch restrictions, and rely on people's good old common sense, and personal responsibility to keep everyone safe.

www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/06/28/infection-through-fleeting-contact-with-the-delta-variant-leads-to-lockdowns-across-australia/?sh=425fa1615d4f[/quote]
So which restrictions do you want to go back to?? Non essential retail closed? Pubs/Restaurants closed? Foreign travel banned?

So which restrictions do you want to go back to?? Non essential retail closed? Pubs/Restaurants closed? Foreign travel banned?

If the poster is correct in saying Delta can be caught simply 'by passing by each other' then we'll have to go full Wuhan and get welded into our homes.

Mask wearing was never universal. People weren't wearing masks to eat and drink in restaurants and pubs, for instance. Children weren't wearing masks. People weren't wearing them when visiting other people's homes. So there were loads of opportunities for people to get infected. That doesn't mean the masks themselves were useless.