Thoughts on the non-vaccinated!

[UnluckyMe]

Why have people been so critical of those who have chosen not to be vaccinated against covid 19?

I've read all sorts of comments about those, like me, who chose not to be vaccinated calling us selfish, uneducated and so on. There seems to be a massive lack of respect for what others choose to do with their body and I'm just curious as go why people feel the need to make comments about it. There are obviously many who don't and I do acknowledge that, my post is more directed to thoughts on why the other side do (feels very playground bully like to me).

The way I see it is everyone has a choice - respect that choice and move on with life rather than throwing insults at one another or dwell on something out of your own control.

I'd also like to confirm i do not own tin foil hat, expect the end of days soon or believe everyone will drop dead in 6 months / will transform into magneto from X-Men (all those coins sticking to people's arms!)

I have followed the rules down to a tee but have just chosen not to be vaccinated at present. Maybe I will change my mind, maybe I won't 🤷‍♀️ who knows.

I am genuinely curious - I read on another post "all vulnerable and sensible people have had the jab" as a comment which riled me a bit too! I like to think I'm pretty sensible but clearly this Mumsnetter thinks otherwise 😆😆

Well how do we know that? What if the spike proteins remain? Where has the testing been? What if they cause issues in months to come and cause for example autoimmunity?

@shrodingersbiscuit how about nanolipids in ovaries? Is it a ‘thing’?

Surely there is far more evidence for say - damage to fertility by moderate alcohol intake…

My decision not the house have the vaccine is based on evidence. Evidence that shows that someone my age, ethnicity abd with no underlying health condition is at extremely low risk of serious illness from the virus itself. I evaluated that risk and am happy to take it. Please don’t assume that people who have decided not to be vaccinated have done so based on reading anti-vaxx conspiracy theories abd watching YouTube videos.

Yes, it is evidence based. The evidence shows that I am low risk. I didn’t say that the vaccine was higher risk to me. I said I am at low risk of serious illness from COVID(based on available evidence) and I am happy to take that risk. It’s lower than most things I do on a daily basis without even thinking about them.

I’m not afraid of the vaccine at all. I just don’t feel like I need it or want it. I don’t tend to run out and get every vaccine going just for the sake of it. Technically the flu vaccine is lower risk than flu for most people but we don’t all rush out and have it every year because of that. Only the people who are at higher risk of complications from flu tend to have the flu vaccine because others are happy to take their risk with the virus.

Evidence that shows that someone my age, ethnicity abd with no underlying health condition is at extremely low risk of serious illness from the virus itself. I evaluated that risk and am happy to take it.

You've evaluated the risk to you @bumbleymummy, but you have totally ignored the risk you pose, unvaccinated, to others.

I especially feel for those who are immunocompromised and face being pretty much housebound, because of vaccine refusers, and the removal of social distancing and masking.

It's very selfish to refuse the vaccine.

@shrodingersbiscuit thank you SO much for all the info. Your posts are amazing, really informative.

@ShortBacknSides

Evidence that shows that someone my age, ethnicity abd with no underlying health condition is at extremely low risk of serious illness from the virus itself. I evaluated that risk and am happy to take it.

You've evaluated the risk to you @bumbleymummy, but you have totally ignored the risk you pose, unvaccinated, to others.

I especially feel for those who are immunocompromised and face being pretty much housebound, because of vaccine refusers, and the removal of social distancing and masking.

It's very selfish to refuse the vaccine.

Yes, I have. And that evaluation was evidence based, despite what a previous poster tried to argue.

I’m no more of a risk to another person than an unvaccinated child/pregnant person or someone who can’t be vaccinated. You don’t know who you’re going to come across when you go out. If someone is worried about the risk of the virus to them, they can be vaccinated. That’s the point of it.

What did the immunocompromised do pre-covid? Did you think that there were no other viruses that were a risk to immunocompromised people before 2020.

Is it illogical to not have the flu vaccine every year even though I’m in a low risk group for flu too? Technically, the vaccine is lower risk for it too, right?

you are making an illogical choice based on your fear of the vaccine and the pseudoscience you are surrounded with regarding it

No, I’m not. I’ve already told you I am not afraid of the vaccine. And I’m not surrounded by pseudoscience :)

I’m no more of a risk to another person than an unvaccinated child/pregnant person or someone who can’t be vaccinated. You don’t know who you’re going to come across when you go out. If someone is worried about the risk of the virus to them, they can be vaccinated. That’s the point of it.

@bumbleymummy yes, there are are people who can't be vaccinated, and of course it doesn't make a jot of difference if someone was infected by a person who couldn't be vaccinated rather than someone who didn't want to

But I don't really see the relevance? It's a numbers game, and one the reasons to get vaccinated, as described by posters above, is to contribute to population-level protection to reduce the chances of transmission to someone vulnerable

I find it interesting in these discussions that there are ‘so many vulnerable people who can’t be vaccinated that we need to protect’. Yet when we talk about vaccine exemption there are ‘very few people who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons’.

@bumbleymummy

I find it interesting in these discussions that there are ‘so many vulnerable people who can’t be vaccinated that we need to protect’. Yet when we talk about vaccine exemption there are ‘very few people who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons’.

eh? it's generally not about people not being able to be vaccinated, it's that the immunity conferred by this and previous infection is far from perfect

It's true that fortunately, because it's not a live vaccine, there are few people who are recommended to not be vaccinated by HCPs. I'm not sure why you find that suspicious?

[quote shrodingersbiscuit]@bumbleymummy

There is no virus comparable to Covid-19 with regards to its unique combination of virulence, infectivity, rapid mutation and subsequent global impact. Asking what did immunocompromised people do before Covid is comparing apples with oranges - Covid wasn’t there. Now it is. Choosing to lock them up or endanger them is cruel.

I’m young fit and healthy. I have all my vaccines so as the herd is immune, most diseases are not a danger to me. I don’t know who I may encounter when I go out indeed, but I have a social responsibility to protect those who cannot be vaccinated - those who are too selfish to do so unnecessarily decrease herd immunity and risk those who cannot be vaccinated.[/quote]
I didn’t compare it directly to flu. I asked if it’s illogical not to be vaccinated against flu because the vaccine is lower risk than the virus itself for most people. So, is it illogical?

We don’t have herd immunity to things like flu, nor do we aim for them. You could be carrying and transmitting any number of viruses to immunocompromised people without knowing it.

I also didn’t say we should lock immunocompromised people up I’m merely pointing out that there have always been viruses that are a risk to immunocompromised people, including things that circulate pretty freely each year, such as flu.

@shrodingersbiscuit I’m might call on you when I get stuck in another debate! Perhaps you need to start charging a fee!

I’ve said this on other threads but I do think all this resistance to vaccines/masks/guidelines is down to rampant individualism and psychological reactance.

I concerned also about the lack of regulation on Mumsnet - I’m seen some pretty awful stuff on these Covid threads.

@shrodingersbiscuit

Also, the risk from/to people who cannot be vaccinated is not the same as those who chose not to be. Again, apples and oranges. You choose to not contribute to the herd immunity that’s absolutely fine but don’t pretend that choice isn’t solely for selfish reasons. It is categorically not evidence based. It is not backed by science. It is all yours.

I haven’t chosen not to contribute to herd immunity. I’ve chosen not to be vaccinated. You know that infection also confers immunity, right?

Call me selfish all you like but my decision is evidence-based, as I’ve pointed out several times now.

Still waiting to hear whether it’s irrational not to have the flu vaccine every year, based on your logic.