Thoughts on the non-vaccinated!

[UnluckyMe]

Why have people been so critical of those who have chosen not to be vaccinated against covid 19?

I've read all sorts of comments about those, like me, who chose not to be vaccinated calling us selfish, uneducated and so on. There seems to be a massive lack of respect for what others choose to do with their body and I'm just curious as go why people feel the need to make comments about it. There are obviously many who don't and I do acknowledge that, my post is more directed to thoughts on why the other side do (feels very playground bully like to me).

The way I see it is everyone has a choice - respect that choice and move on with life rather than throwing insults at one another or dwell on something out of your own control.

I'd also like to confirm i do not own tin foil hat, expect the end of days soon or believe everyone will drop dead in 6 months / will transform into magneto from X-Men (all those coins sticking to people's arms!)

I have followed the rules down to a tee but have just chosen not to be vaccinated at present. Maybe I will change my mind, maybe I won't 🤷‍♀️ who knows.

I am genuinely curious - I read on another post "all vulnerable and sensible people have had the jab" as a comment which riled me a bit too! I like to think I'm pretty sensible but clearly this Mumsnetter thinks otherwise 😆😆

confused.com you reiterate my concerns. I know very little about this field or the workings of the MHRA but I have an analytical mind due to my job

I am scratching my head with disbelief at how the data has been collected and analysed. I have lost faith in the MHRA and don’t trust any of them or the data.

My continued concerns - from a position of ignorance but these concerns continue to
grow - is the long term issues of these vaccines and also the lack of data due to a lack of control group which will have been vaccinated. It is assumed there are no long term issue. What happens to the spike proteins? Where did they go? In the case if the mRNA vaccines, what happens to the nanoparticles? I found a study saying only a tiny amount end up, for example, in the ovaries. Whah happens thereafter?

I have decided I am quite mad. I probably have one hundredth the intelligence of these people and yet I can’t fathom how the data is being collated and analyses and how anyone thinks we have the necessary rigour.

@Roonerspismed me too! But I just posted confused response to another poster and got this:

This person appears to be trying to apply drug development concepts to a vaccine in a way that is clearly invalid

Of course we don't know the 'dose' of spike protein produced. It's going to vary between people and furthermore it doesn't matter. What matters is the antibodies and the T cell immunity that the spike protein induced which are measured in all the published trials.

Similarly a concept like bio distribution, can't really apply to a bit of RNA or an adenovirus. Those are concepts you can only measure for a drug getting distributed around the body. The only bits you could apply that to might be adjuvants which are things added to vaccines to stimulate a bigger immune response eg Aluminium sometimes in the past controversially but not now. Apparently the mRNA vaccines have a lipid adjuvant (I just googled that) but lipids are pretty natural things and I would imagine it would have to be a very tiny amount so I can't get worked up over it.

Just wondered what @confuseddotcom090 had to say in response??

Had my first jab and waiting on my 2nd. However, I’m curious to hear how individuals will feel that declined taking their vaccine with the new change of restrictions coming in.

For instance… If you have been working from home the last 12 months and your employer now calls you back into the office from 19th July due to restrictions being lifted and with the mandating of face masks no longer being compulsory; how will you feel mingling on public transport or working in a busy office without your vaccination? Oh.. and how will you feel having to isolate should you travel abroad when others who have had their vaccine don’t have too upon return to the UK?

Thank you @shrodingersbiscuit! Even though I don’t understand it, it sounded suspicious to me!

I'm not disowning anyone either way, and tend to keep my opinions on it to myself unless asked!

But since you have asked for a reasonable discussion - I'm pregnant (and therefore vulnerable) but wasn't allowed the vaccine for a significant period of time. Generally the vaccine reduces transmissibility - so the more people who have had the vaccine, the safer the world is for those who can't have it for medical reasons but might still be covid vulnerable. So it's not as black and white as everyone's actions only affecting themselves?

Also, to allow the country to get back to normal, a significant proportion have to take up the vaccine, to ensure hospitals aren't overwhelmed etc as we unlock. So it's maybe altruistic - and I do understand peoples reservations on new vaccines, I researched them endlessly myself as I was unsure of what to do! - but if you don't have a vaccine you're relying on others doing so to allow society to go back to functioning as 'normal'.

Again, I wouldn't call anyone out for this, it's just my view when asked. I have friends on both sides. What I can't abide is the extreme anti-vax anti-mask brigade calling me a sheep for being pro-vaccination... probably similarly to your views on the tin foil hat comments!

Maybe looking at it from another view will give some perspective of their choices.
My son when he was around 12 months was given a rotavirus vaccine. It was a newer vaccine put on the schedule that my older children did not have. I was not informed and the nurse put the drops in his mouth before I could ask.
One month later when we were in the shops, he fell on the floor screaming. I had no idea what was wrong with him, started to drive home and he lost consciousness in the car.
I called an ambulance and he was taken to hospital. Many doctors kept asking me if he had been fully vaccinated which I replied yes but was surprised by the questions.
He had intersuseption which is a telescoping of the bowel. He survived by having treatment but left 24 hours, you can pass away.
Later told by the dr that that condition is a direct correlation to the vaccine. It was terrifying and the last thing I would have thought.
People have reasons for the way they behave. Calling them disgusting, selfish and obscene does nothing except make people dig their feels in even more.
If I'm selfish for waiting then so be it.

*heels not feels.

@Aldilogue my son also had the rotavirus vaccine. His older sister didn’t. I had no idea that was a side effect (although I didn’t really read up) - that must have been a horrendous thing to go through.
My daughter did contract rotavirus at nursery - was very ill, vomiting, couldn’t keep anything down - even fluids. She went limp while I changed her nappy and was rushed to a and e. I had to use a syringe to put tiny amounts of water in her mouth - and she was in an awful state. So I was pleased when her brother had the vaccine.
I think - this is making me more aware of potential side effects, which is a good thing. But I also need to look at the relative risks - which would always be that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risk of side effects.
I hope your son is ok now x

@Aldilogue @UndercoverToad

I had the exact same concerns over the rotavirus vaccine. My elder daughter didn't, my 2 year old was given it.

Before giving the 2 year old the drops, I queried it with the nurse. I said my children were breastfed and my elder child suffered no illnesses while she was fed. I also said I'd never heard of any child being seriously ill with it. She got quite snippy with me even asking the questions and felt I had no option but to give him the drops.

Upon further research I discovered rotavirus is primarily administered as a cost-saving measure, to reduce number of children who need to be hospitalised and the burden of this cost to health services.

I was not informed of this reason for it, nor possible side-effects.

I declined the rotavirus vaccine for my third. Various reasons. I think joe public isn’t told the risks. In most healthy babies rotavirus isn’t a big deal

Thanks to the previous poster replying to my post. Sorry - it was a rat study on nano PEG but I think the only one which looked at clearance. I appreciate nano PEG has been used in some medication for a few years but this is the first time it’s been used in a vaccine for billions. I don’t think we do know how its cleared and if the nanoparticles remain, for example, in places they shouldn’t such as the brain. I appreciate you said we didn’t have much time and I think an 80 year old won’t be very concerned but I’m very interested in relation to younger people. I’m reaction to the spike protein, there are, for example, manufacturing variances in the AZ vaccine and these relate to the stability of the spike protein and that has been accepted by the regulator. But again, this doesn’t sound acceptable to me of some batches are more risky than others (noting for example the three men from one city who developed Guillain Barre).

schrodinger anecdotally I know several women saying their periods are strange, several months later. They have been told it’s not connected to the vaccine

This is my HUGE issue - we will never know the longer term effects of these vaccines.

I would have been a happy volunteer of a non vaccinated control. I had CFS fifteen years ago and am meticulous about what I now put near my body. Covid doesn’t frighten me; improperly tested vaccines do as well as most mainstream medications

UndercoverToad thank you he is a bouncy 9 year old now.

I’m glad he recovered fully. That’s a horrific sorry adi

I had my first on 8th Jan (I volunteered at a vaccination centre and there was some left). I had no real time to think about it.

However, after I had it...

I was grinning like a Cheshire Cat.

I was relieved that my children shouldn't lose their mother to Covid.

And I felt like I'd done my bit to protect wider society.

I was also immensely proud of those who were clever enough and worked so hard to develop it.

Would I have preferred not to have it? Of course! But where would we be then?

That deaths have starkly reduced because of the vaccine programme is no coincidence or conspiracy.

And it irks me that people have been hospitalised, and used valuable resources, because they have refused the vaccine.

I've not had the vaccine and have no plans to yet.
I've had Covid (barely any symptoms) and been around people who have had it since and not re-caught it so I imagine I must have some form of natural immunity.
I've kept fairly quiet about my choice, I don't believe the earth is flat nor that the government are going to stick a chip in me I just don't want the vaccine right now.

@Roonerspismed my understanding is that it’s an immune system response, and as the womb is part of the immune system, there is a potential for disruption. This could happen with any vaccine, or any illness.

But it’s not anything that would effect fertility.

"as the womb is part of the immune system"

No, it is not.

I don’t think the uterus is part of the immune system although I would imagine it is inextricably linked

We know that some of the nano ends up in the ovaries - in rats anyway. How long does it hang around for?

That we actually don’t know this after vaccinating millions of young people boggles my mind

@CoteDAzur @Roonerspismed

By that I meant the womb lining - sorry.

Here:

The womb lining is part of the immune system - in fact there are immune cells in almost every part of the body.

Everything in your body is "inextricably linked" to everything else.

The womb is still not part of the immune system.

Of course, womb lining has immune cells. And yet it is no more part of the immune system than the mouth is.

"What happens to the spike proteins? Where did they go?"

Where do the spike proteins or indeed any remaining microbial particles go following an infection or vaccination?

They get gobbled up and destroyed by your body's immune system.