Thoughts on the non-vaccinated!

[UnluckyMe]

Why have people been so critical of those who have chosen not to be vaccinated against covid 19?

I've read all sorts of comments about those, like me, who chose not to be vaccinated calling us selfish, uneducated and so on. There seems to be a massive lack of respect for what others choose to do with their body and I'm just curious as go why people feel the need to make comments about it. There are obviously many who don't and I do acknowledge that, my post is more directed to thoughts on why the other side do (feels very playground bully like to me).

The way I see it is everyone has a choice - respect that choice and move on with life rather than throwing insults at one another or dwell on something out of your own control.

I'd also like to confirm i do not own tin foil hat, expect the end of days soon or believe everyone will drop dead in 6 months / will transform into magneto from X-Men (all those coins sticking to people's arms!)

I have followed the rules down to a tee but have just chosen not to be vaccinated at present. Maybe I will change my mind, maybe I won't 🤷‍♀️ who knows.

I am genuinely curious - I read on another post "all vulnerable and sensible people have had the jab" as a comment which riled me a bit too! I like to think I'm pretty sensible but clearly this Mumsnetter thinks otherwise 😆😆

Like other PP have said. I genuinely have no ire towards anyone who is not vaccinating. It doesn't mean I agree with it for me and mine but it's not my decision and I fully respect anyone to have full bodily autonomy.

I do however have a problem with many who use wording that implies those who choose to vaccinate are sheep or uninformed. I hate the accusation of being swayed by propaganda. It's utterly offensive. I'm an intelligent woman who made her own decision as did those who chose not to be vaccinated. I do not argue with their decision or imply they are blinkered or stupid. Just as I detest those who accuse people who don't have the vaccine as being stupid.

It comes down to that really , I have less than no issue with other people's medical choices. I'm disgusted by the group of people on both sides who deem it acceptable to become nasty personal and feel they can denigrate others decisions by attacking them personally.

Even more so when they haven't got the guts to do it directly but imply it.

I'm double vaccinated and I made a rational informed decision. I have very little time for being accused of being sheeplike or uninformed. Just as I would not accept it being thrown at other people's choices.

I may not be anti vax but I'm definitely anti arsehole.

@XenoBitch

I have no thoughts on them (I am one myself anyway). Having the vaccine is a choice, and I am happy for the people who were so desperate to have it.

I expect we will get ripped to shreds on this board though.

Because it affects other people. You a ok with drink/phone driving too I guess? But lol it's all too funny and amusing, those desperate sheeple amirite? The combination of arrogance, ignorance, disingenuity and victim complex is what makes rational people angry with this kind of comment. Not your bloody ' life choices'

OP spectacularly proves her own point
Fancy shooting yourself in the other foot as well
Mind you I do love a good flounce

Because you benefit from everyone else (who can) having 5he vaccine. You can carry on your merry way because others did the thing and showed solidarity. And yet if you get seriously ill with it? Everyone's contributions to the NHS pay for your treatment.

Bodily autonomy is a thing and you are allowed that. But equally I'm allowed to think you're a selfish freeloader who will take the benefits without contributing.

I have been very vocal elsewhere that I don't believe it is ethical for the vaccinated to have privileges over the non-vaccinated until everyone has had the chance to be vaccinated. And I stand by that until the last to be vaccinated have been done. (those not able to be vaccinated, for this purpose, are counted by me in with the vaccinated. They don't have a choice and mustn't be pénalisé for that). After that? I'm happy for vax-refusniks to have to jump through hoops to be able to fo things (eg tests at their own cost)

I think @UnluckyMe it is because if enough people that can get vaccinated don't then herd immunity to protect those that are unable to get vaccinated isn't achieved. It's about community that are fit and healthy helping those that cannot be protected by the vaccine.

No need for people to be rude though but I get why people are frustrated. Without vaccinations then this lock down cycle would continue and continue so basically the vaccinated are doing their bit protecting those that aren't.

@Gladiolys

You know how anti-vaxxers are painted with this brush of being conspiracy theorists etc. You scream angry pro-vaxxer. I will run all my life decisions through you from now on. Look out for my emails.

Let’s not pretend this wouldn’t actually be an excellent idea.

You presumably think you're saying this sarcastically, but it's not hard to believe that you do actually have a bit of a god complex (or at the least a few fascist tendencies) and would just love to be telling everyone what to do.

People like you are far scarier than COVID and it's frightening how many of you have been brought out of the woodwork by all of this.

I also get why many countries want to see the vaccination certificate before they allow people in. The choice of the individual country at the end of the day.

I do think less of those who choose not to be vaccinated because we need herd immunity and they are not contributing to that, which will affect others. Putting yourself before others is the definition of selfish so yes, I think you’re selfish.

@ForeverSausages

Read through the whole thread and surprised no one has mentioned natural immunity. Obviously, the usual; I'm not having lunch with the unvaccinated and if someone gets Covid it'll obviously be from the unvaccinated. Thankfully my friends (vaccinated) realise they could be asymptomatic and give me (unvaccinated) Covid.

My question re immunity; I've had Covid recently. Is it selfish and stupid of me to now not have the vaccination even though I likely already have natural immunity?

A friend of mine in her 30s caught Covid in the first wave pre lockdown and was pretty ill.

She caught it again this January and within 48 hrs she was critically ill in intensive care and had to be resuscitated. She was very lucky to pull through but 6 months later her breathing is still badly affected and she is unable to return to work.

I wouldn't rely on that immunity lasting.

I think it's selfish if you can have the vacine and don't because as it's already been said we do need the herd immunity,there are people that can't be immunised for medical reasons,how would you feel if you caught covid and survived but passed it onto someone that can't have the vaccination and they didn't survive?

I've been vaccinated because I don't want to be the one that catches it,copes well but then passes it onto some other poor soul and they don't survive it,and yes I know you can still catch it but it's not usually as bad and is less transferable!

Because I work for the NHS and I am exhausted. We need to be able to focus on getting bac to business as usual and catching up on the last 18 months. People who aren't vaccinated are much more likely to need hospital care and treatment. The more who choose not to vaccinate, the more work for the NHS.

@AliceLivesHere

I also get why many countries want to see the vaccination certificate before they allow people in. The choice of the individual country at the end of the day.

Exactly. It is the right of any country to deny entry to anyone who has not been vaccinated against a highly transmissible illness.

It isn't a hill I would want to die on.

@Keepingthingsinteresting

Because COVID 19 is dangerous to individuals and a society (I.e. puts the ability of the NHS to cope at risk) and so choosing not be be vaccinated without a good reason, meaning your personal health is such that a vaccine would be damaging to you, is selfish and ignorant. There is no good reason not to, if people didn’t get vaccinated we’d still have endemic polio, TB, measles, mumps etc- there have been flare ups of the last three of these over recent years and they are incredibly damaging. If you are scared, say so and get some education. If not then you are being selfish as you’re expecting others to do all the work so life can go back to “normal” but aren’t willing to chip in to the single most important action to facilitate that and to protect the vulnerable, so own it.

For anyone who wants to jump on me I have an understanding of how vaccines work from a biological perspective and have looked into the mechanisms so do know what I’m talking about.

People are entitled to have boundaries when it comes to what they allow to be injected into their own bodies. Yes what they chose to do has social impacts, and the decision not to vaccinate is a self-oriented, but again being self- oriented when it comes to such a personal matter (ones own body, ones health) is entirely reasonable. Calling them “selfish” for that is unfair in my opinion. Trying to trample on someone’s boundaries when it comes to what they do with their own body is imv controlling and abusive.

For context I am not anti- vaccine. I have had my first vaccination and get my second on Wednesday. I am not especially concerned about covid, but have got vaccinated to be socially responsible , because I don’t particularly mind doing so. I also believe very strongly that people should have a choice.

I am genuinely fascinated to know what you think the answer to the pandemic is op? The data that is currently pouring in shows that the vaccine has cut the link between Covid and death, and has seriously damaged the link between Covid and serious illness and hospitalisation. Therefore almost no one is now dying, and the pressure on the NHS from Covid has been significantly reduced. Therefore life can start returning to normalcy again, and people can start to try and save their livelihoods and see their loved ones again. Not to mention all the medical treatments that have had to be cancelled or postponed that can now start again.

If we had all taken the decision that you personally deem to be the right one, ie not being vaccinated, what should we have done as a (global) society to move out of the pandemic?

I realise this isn’t the point of your post exactly, but I think it’s key to how the vaccinated feel about the unvaccinated. I’d be so interested to know what you think the alternative was?

For those with natural immunity, it probably won’t last forever and if you want to maintain some level of immunity, you will need the vaccine. Just as those with vaccine immunity will need a booster.
I have been vaccinated but will remain cautious in terms of who I interact with, in order to protect them and myself.
I am pro vax and as a women in my 40s have accepted some level of risk with the AZ vaccine. I have done it for the greater good and in the hope that some level of normality returns for all. Unfortunately the more who don’t participate, the less effective the vaccination programme will be and we will all be at greater risk. The vaccine hesitant will benefit from the risk that I have taken. And, yes- that irritates me.

@OliviaWainright

Because I work for the NHS and I am exhausted. We need to be able to focus on getting bac to business as usual and catching up on the last 18 months. People who aren't vaccinated are much more likely to need hospital care and treatment. The more who choose not to vaccinate, the more work for the NHS.

Thank you and other NHS staff.

I see that hospitalisations are more in non vaccinated now so really pleased that the vaccines are working well.

Just to clarify: I don't think the choice to have the vaccine makes anyone a 'sheeple'. I think it is a choice, and everyone has to come to their own personal decision about it. I think there are good reasons both to be vaccinated and to not be vaccinated. I personally have chosen not to have the vaccine, but I don't think that choosing to have it is a wrong or bad choice for anyone else. We all have to decide this for ourselves.

The 'cult mentality' I was referring to in my comment is the mentality of people who don't accept that personal choice or bodily sovereignty are in any way important, and who insist that the unvaccinated are evil, dangerous, selfish etc. whereas they are the enlightened ones who are altruistically having this vaccine for the good of others. The sort of people who want to sing songs at us to get us to come over to the light.

People are free to choose whether to be vaccine or not - I’ve chosen to be.
I looked at the bigger picture as a mother with children at school the risk was higher for me to be in contact with the virus- I’ve been able to WFH and online shopping etc.
I have a friend who late last year was all a bit covid 19 is fake and doesn’t affect my age group I’m fit and well……being taken by ambulance Christmas Eve to hospital and stuck in a covid ward for Christmas wasn’t much fun. Knowing that the 15 people they had close contact with at work 10 caught covid and one ended up in ICU (thankfully ok now) they first in line to get the vaccine after being so against it before!
As long as people can risk assess for themselves what contact they have etc it’s up to them.

I am vaccinated. A relative of mine isn't. Their reasoning is that based on a scientific analysis of risk, the risk to them of the vaccine side effects is greater than the risk of covid. That may well be true but it is an entirely selfish decision. They are an inherently selfish person so I am not surprised by their decision.

You presumably think you're saying this sarcastically, but it's not hard to believe that you do actually have a bit of a god complex (or at the least a few fascist tendencies) and would just love to be telling everyone what to do.

Yes, I absolutely do. I’ve often thought that while I’m very anti the concept of totalitarian dictators generally, if the totalitarian dictator were me it would be a brilliant idea.

You have nothing to fear, I would be a benign overlord 😈

I had 2 of the AZ and certainly won't be having any more Covid vaccines of any description. Since the 2nd jab, I've had 8 weeks of headaches and joint pain especially in my hips that have frankly made my life miserable. I'm still taking daily painkillers to be able to get up in the morning.

Not everyone tolerates vaccines, and it's an individual choice to have one. I don't judge anyone for not having it.

Putting yourself before others is the definition of selfish so yes, I think you’re selfish

Selfish is on almost every other post. It's just silly, emotional mud-slinging that's used to insult people and attempt to guilt them into action. However, it's pretty meaningless.

Other than some very rare exceptions, EVERY person is selfish by default. It's natural, it's survival instinct, protecting your own etc. You put you and your family first.

I could call you selfish for not giving blood. Not putting yourself on the bone marrow list. Not offering yourself up as a live kidney donor to some poor sick 5 year old dying of kidney cancer. Not donating half your income to a third world family - what, you think you need Netflix and takeaways more than an Ethiopian family need water?

How. Fucking. Selfish.

Meaningless words.

I'm a decent enough person...i volunteer, I'm kind, I donate, I help my neighbours, I help my colleagues. To a point.

However, when push comes to shove, despite the number of things I do for my community - I will put myself and my family before any other person on this Earth. As would you. To pretend otherwise is silly...and probably a downright lie if you pretend to.

For me, I feel that having the vaccine would be an unnecessary risk to me and my family as I have serious concerns over the safety, efficacy and need (for me) of the current vaccines. Concerns that I'm not willing to ignore for you, anyone else, or their granny.

OP Says "There seems to be a massive lack of respect for what others choose to do with their body and I'm just curious as go why people feel the need to make comments about it. "

I would argue that my lack of respect for people who do not get vaccinated (I excuse those who literally can't have it, for obvious reasons) is TRIVIAL compared to the lack of respect the unvaccinated give all in society, but especially vulnerable people and those unable to be vaccinated.

OP is the equivalent of someone struggling under the weight of their massive ghetto blaster as they walk down the high street blasting music at top volume, having a go at a couple having a heated chat for being too noisy. Sorry, when you're very noisy you don't get to complain that others are a bit noisy. When you're being completely disrespectful to the whole of society, in a way that could LITERALLY KILL other people, then people saying "OP you are a selfish moron, grow up and stop being so idiotic and thoughtless" it is literally NOTHING in comparison.

Wimpund we're all selfish but some are more selfish than others. You choosing to risk the lives of others based on NOTHING is very very very selfish and I despise people like you.

@JediGnot

Wimpund we're all selfish but some are more selfish than others. You choosing to risk the lives of others based on NOTHING is very very very selfish and I despise people like you.

Talk about being unable to see the world from anything other than your own point of view.

Selfish things others do - despicable.
Selfish things I do - perfectly OK