School pupils vaccinated from September

[Totalbeach]

This is in lots of papers today. Such as:

www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19274021.secondary-school-pupils-set-get-covid-jab-september/

And:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/nhs-england-draws-up-plan-to-give-covid-jabs-to-children-12-and-over

What’s your reaction?

Mine is that I 100% won’t be allowing my children to be vaccinated.

In the whole pandemic so far, 12 children under 15 have died in the U.K. That increases to 32 in the under 20s. The mortality rate is vanishingly tiny. A huge percentage of kids don’t even get symptoms at all.

The government has assured us till they are blue in the face that schools are safe and that children don’t spread it so it will be interesting to see what kind of enormous gaslighting they attempt to pull off to persuade parents they now need to vaccinate their kids.

The long term effects of the vaccines are totally unknown and recent events with AZ have proved rather horribly that even after a vaccine is rolled out, serious effects can come to light. Including events that disproportionately affect certain age groups.

I’m fully vaccinated (including first Covid vaccine) as are my kids but there is no way I’d let them be vaccinated in September. With any of the vaccines.

I dont have DC but totally agree with you @CoffeeWithCheese

I'll be very relieved if my kids can have it. DD has a history of being admitted to hospital as she has asthma triggered by coughs and colds. Her being vaccinated would be a weight off my mind.

@jumpbounce

All those who say they won't consent for their children to have the vaccine. What if your child wants it...will you go against their wishes? Are you aware that children under the age of 16 are able to provide consent for medical treatment themselves provided they are Gillick competent?

That is interesting but if I was to decide not to let him have the jab (He is more than likely going too). Then he knows if he went against my decision he would encounter the consent for gadgets until he life home problem 😉

My children won't be having it until it's been around longer. They are not at risk of complications and have no vulnerabilities that would warrant it. I won't be getting the vaccinated to protect others as, to be honest, in the last 12 months I think our young people have done their bit. It's up the the adults now to get vaccinated and carry the risk- not our children.

Surely the more people who have it of any age the less the transmission is. Kids are unlikely to be ill from covid but they can still transmit it I thought? So they could still pass the virus on to someone who can't be vaccinated for a medical reason. The less people vaccininated the more the virus will be circulating. My child is 2 and I will be vaccinating him when it is offered.

@TruelyWonder
I know you are joking however I get the feeling that is the pressure a lot of DC will be under unfortunately which isn't right. It is legally their decision to make and doing anything to the contrary would be coercive control.

When I was at school one of my friends parents did not consent to her having the HPV vaccine she was able to consent herself against her parents wishes. To be honest I'm not sure if she would even have told her parents or if they would have been able to find out she had had the vaccine... I presume they would still be able to have requested her medical records I suppose but I've no idea how that works.

@boomwhacker

My children won't be having it until it's been around longer. They are not at risk of complications and have no vulnerabilities that would warrant it. I won't be getting the vaccinated to protect others as, to be honest, in the last 12 months I think our young people have done their bit. It's up the the adults now to get vaccinated and carry the risk- not our children.

Your children have no vulnerabilities now...as of right now. You don't know what they could be diagnosed with tomorrow or next week or month that would make them vulnerable to covid at that stage and also potentially too unwell to be vaccinated. Everyone on mumsnet seems to take their good health and that of their children for granted that it will always be that way and that there is no underlying as yet undiagnosed conditions that usually tend to come to light as a result of another illness.

@boomwhacker

My children won't be having it until it's been around longer. They are not at risk of complications and have no vulnerabilities that would warrant it. I won't be getting the vaccinated to protect others as, to be honest, in the last 12 months I think our young people have done their bit. It's up the the adults now to get vaccinated and carry the risk- not our children.

I also presume you haven't vaccinated your children against any of the other illnesses we routinely vaccinate for that are very unlikely to ever be exposed to never mind make them unwell? Or are those vaccines different in some way? Don't say they have been around for a long period of time. The routine vaccination programme is regularly updated and changed and new vaccines added in and some removed but very rarely does anyone ever look into it to know that. They just accept the vaccines because its the done thing or they don't because they are anti vax

🙄
I'm rolling my eyes so much they've gone dizzy.

Antivaxxers 🤷🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🙄

This hasn’t been agreed yet depends on the results of the trial and availability.

For the record, my children have been vaccinated for everything else. I and my husband have had the Covid vaccine. I am a long way from being an anti-vaxer but this time I will be waiting until it's properly tried and tested. My children will not be being guinea pigs for a brand new vaccine which is likely to be of little benefit to their long term health, at least for a few years.

@boomwhacker

For the record, my children have been vaccinated for everything else. I and my husband have had the Covid vaccine. I am a long way from being an anti-vaxer but this time I will be waiting until it's properly tried and tested. My children will not be being guinea pigs for a brand new vaccine which is likely to be of little benefit to their long term health, at least for a few years.

Guinea pigs

[quote jumpbounce]@TruelyWonder
I know you are joking however I get the feeling that is the pressure a lot of DC will be under unfortunately which isn't right. It is legally their decision to make and doing anything to the contrary would be coercive control.

When I was at school one of my friends parents did not consent to her having the HPV vaccine she was able to consent herself against her parents wishes. To be honest I'm not sure if she would even have told her parents or if they would have been able to find out she had had the vaccine... I presume they would still be able to have requested her medical records I suppose but I've no idea how that works.[/quote]
One of the girls in my year back in the 80s had an abortion arranged by the school. Her parents were catholic and very determined she should keep the baby. So she was desperate for help. It was all a nightmare but the school and social services did right. She returned home after a few weeks in foster care.

@TruelyWonder This is why it is brilliant that young people are afforded the right to make their own decisions regarding medical treatment. I'm glad she got the help she needed.

For DS2 I am really hoping that Novavax will be available but I believe that they are only just about starting the trials on teenagers . Only because it’s tried and tested science and he already has received the flu vaccine for a decade.

Gosh I'm really shocked that people don't want their kids vaccinated.

Mine will be, because covid is horrendous and unpredictable and who knows what the long term effects are of asymptomatic covid? I'd feel terrible if dd ended up with lung scarring when there were safe vaccines available.

Plus have close family member who reacted to the vaccine (was likely as very allergic) and so still at risk .

But then I always think people who refuse medicine of any kind are nuts. I'm only alive due to scientific advances in several different fields so yes I trust the scientists completely.

I just find it amusing that the poster who post this type of thread is always 100 % against vaccinating children. It's very one sided opinion, how gov betrayed us, how little children has died, etc, etc. Completely ignoring the potential danger of the illness itself. Sounds like they just want to persuade as many parents to refuse.

We have already talked about it with my dc, and he is willing to have it as soon as they are offered to have it.

@CoffeeWithCheese

I will not be giving consent for my children to have it - I don't believe we have enough long-term data on the risks in a younger population. I also have one child with a history of reacting to other vaccines so I would want a much more clearer longer-term picture before doing so.

I will also be persuing complaints right the way up as far as possible if school in any way shape or form tries to stigmatise kids who don't have the vaccination. If confidential information about my kids' medical history is leaked by the school to fuel playground gossip or "who popped the bubble blame" - again I'll be taking action and following up the ladder because I do not believe that it is ever acceptable behaviour - be it for any illness for people to behave like that.

I've had both jabs, both AZ jabs - but if I was still just booking mine now, with how toxic and threatening the discourse has come towards seeking gleefully to exclude those from society who can't, or won't have them - I would not be happy to do so. I was happy that the risks balanced out for myself in terms of the newness of the vaccine - but the way the govt and the govt cheerleaders have played things since then with the coercion of the whole vaccine passports idea, and gleeful suggestions of shunning... THAT is what instills distrust in me and rings alarm bells.

I think you need to sit down and have a little rest.

School staff will not be 'leaking' any information into the playground. 98% of the staff don't even have any involvement with in school vaccinations and certainly in secondary won't remember which kids out of the 240 plus they see in a day didn't go down to the hall in their particular lesson three months ago, especially when they could just as easily have been timetabled to have theirs earlier/later in the day. The actual vaccine records are kept by the School Vaccination Team/on the kids' confidential medical records, so absolutely bugger all to do with the school.

The other kids might know who wasn't there and will of course be aware if one of them is ill later on. But staff? Not a scooby unless they a) take the absence call, b) are responsible for recording the absences on the register/reporting attendance figures, c) have to provide work to be completed remotely for the duration of illness or d) have a kid taken ill in class (and remembering that after a day is less likely in secondary).

If a kid becomes ill at school, it would be relevant for the personal in Medical to ask if they'd been vaccinated, as it would be good to be able to send somebody home with a 'bug' and have them back in again as soon as they feel better, rather than having to assume they've got Covid until a negative PCR is obtained or they complete self isolation with their family. It won't be a question asked in order to have some juicy gossip and bosom hoiking moment whilst waiting for the kettle to boil.

Of course, if governments bring in laws that require vaccination for travel, the schools won't have a choice but to require proof of vaccine status before going on a trip (and avoid the possibility of kids being refused entry into the destination/country they're going to), but that's hardly the schools' fault if that happens.

I just think that if you leave a large reservoir for any infection, what you get is the emergence of mutations where the illness is more effectively transmitted/potentially more serious in that specific reservoir. Which could mean that it becomes a more serious illness in children over time, not less; it's leaving children to become the growth medium as well as the main vector of transmission for disease.

I also can't believe in the middle of a global pandemic that some people can be so insular as to not consider the wider global ramifications of children still carrying it

Mine will be having theirs. Much like flu, it isn't just about them, but about their propensity to spread it to others who cannot be vaccinated or for whom the vaccine wasn't as effective because their immune system didn't mount a sufficient response to the provocation of the jab.

@DinosaurDiana

If you’re going to refuse please make the effort to sign ‘no’ on the consent form. That saves the staff having to phone and ask. Many people believe not bothering to reply is a no - it’s not.

This so much!!! The amount of time and money that is wasted through chasing parents who don't bother to fill in the form/online consent is ridiculous. If you don't want it, please fill it in and say so, we won't chase you then!

@Totalbeach

Don't think anyone thinks children don't spread it - of course they do. And no-one really thinks schools are particularly safe, either - but that opening them is better for children and society than not opening them, and that it's an acceptable balance of risks and benefits. Scientists have always been fairly realistic about children and schools, and more so and more data comes in.

No sorry, this is the kind of ‘we didn’t really mean it’ gaslighting nonsense that I mean. Government ministers including our prime minister and backed by scientists repeatedly said schools are safe and kids don’t spread it. On that basis they sent teachers in, unmitigated. They don’t get to now pretend that of COURSE that isn’t true just because they now need us to all panic vaccinate our kids.

There’s a poster who is very good with the school graphs and there was data from both primary and secondary to show the cases hence the lockdown in January included schools again. It’s been known for ages that children can catch it and pass it on.

My y9 daughter feels like the weirdo because I signed her up for the meningitis jab and few of her friends had it. So, go figure. I know 2 teens who have died of meningitis, but nobody of any age who has died of COVID.

And as for not being "allowed" to do things....WTF?! Only 90pct of UK teens are vaccinated against HPV. Nobody thinks of banning the 10pct who aren't from social events in case they form a relationship and get/give HPV and cervical cancer and die.

I'm not giving my children (or myself for that matter) an experimental vaccine. It's not comparable to flu: flu actually kills children and younger adults every year, and the vaccines are well understood and safe.

COVID is not v deadly for young and healthy and slim people. The vaccines are experimental technology. The AEs reported are an order of magnitude above any other vaccine. We have no medium or longer term safety data. As these are not traditional vaccines, we don't know that this is not a concern. The FDA briefing papers on the mRNA vaccines state that they have no clue if ADE is a risk or not. Only time will tell on that score. I fully expect the AZ one to say the same once it is available.

'not my kids not my problem'

Quite the biggest 'fuck you, world' I have read on here and that is saying something. We were that close to a collapsed NHS and huge supply chain problems. Even without long covid.

@Youdontknowwhatyoureonabout.

My teenagers had theirs yesterday, waited a few weeks for stocks. They are 18 and they contacted our gp through e-reception, asked to be added to the list due to living with a CEV person on immunosuppressive medications. They had confirmation within a day that they were added to the list and got a booking text about 2-3 weeks later