School pupils vaccinated from September

[Totalbeach]

This is in lots of papers today. Such as:

www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19274021.secondary-school-pupils-set-get-covid-jab-september/

And:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/nhs-england-draws-up-plan-to-give-covid-jabs-to-children-12-and-over

What’s your reaction?

Mine is that I 100% won’t be allowing my children to be vaccinated.

In the whole pandemic so far, 12 children under 15 have died in the U.K. That increases to 32 in the under 20s. The mortality rate is vanishingly tiny. A huge percentage of kids don’t even get symptoms at all.

The government has assured us till they are blue in the face that schools are safe and that children don’t spread it so it will be interesting to see what kind of enormous gaslighting they attempt to pull off to persuade parents they now need to vaccinate their kids.

The long term effects of the vaccines are totally unknown and recent events with AZ have proved rather horribly that even after a vaccine is rolled out, serious effects can come to light. Including events that disproportionately affect certain age groups.

I’m fully vaccinated (including first Covid vaccine) as are my kids but there is no way I’d let them be vaccinated in September. With any of the vaccines.

Yes, I would.

The risk to children is far more than just death from covid, but also long covid, lockdowns, isolation, death of family members, and other wider or societal effects - those to me are huge risks to children, and if them having a vaccine protects them from that sort of effect, that's as (or more) important than protecting them from the disease itself.

I would trust the experts' evaluation of the data over my own; I have a science background, but am aware that I don't know enough to look at further data in any more detail that the data that is out now, and if I'm not convinced now, I don't know what further data would do! I believe that any very rare adverse reactions will only come out when millions of people are vaccinated, as they are now - there's no real way to find that out otherwise. And that long term effects years later don't really occur. I understand that there are no plausible mechanisms for later events, and that convinces me.

I am also not put off by the fact that data and conclusions have changed over time; I'd be more worried if they didn't. That is kind of the point of science - if they don't think something is caused by vaccines, they will say so. If new evidence appears to show that it is, they will adjust their ideas. To me, that's preferable than just saying one thing and forever sticking to it, and it increases my trust in the experts rather than the other way around.

@Totalbeach the flu vaccine changes every year to cope with different strains of flu

@OldScrappyAndHungry That doesn’t make it a new vaccine.

The Covid vaccine isn’t a new vaccine either! They’ve been working on it for years .

Don't think anyone thinks children don't spread it - of course they do. And no-one really thinks schools are particularly safe, either - but that opening them is better for children and society than not opening them, and that it's an acceptable balance of risks and benefits. Scientists have always been fairly realistic about children and schools, and more so and more data comes in. There have been rises in rates in school age children, especially secondary age, and school outbreaks, and of course there is spread.

The adults and children who are unable to have the vaccine

Most groups seem ‘able’ to have the vaccine. I also refer you back to my OP where I mentioned that 12 children under 15 in the U.K. have sadly died. Even those who may not be able to have the vaccine are very safe.

@exLtEveDallas

Modern medicine is a privilege that I am very grateful to have.

Absolutely! How privileged are we that we can choose whether or not to vaccinate our dc against a deadly virus they could spread. It’s an absolute privilege to have free access. People do take it for granted.

@OldScrappyAndHungry ‘Working on it’ and ‘using it in children’ are two completely different things.

@FlattestWhite

Agreed. I'm not sure where this weird narrative about experts gained traction? Perhaps a combination of Brexit and Trump?

I'm just going to leave this here:

"Professor Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer for England, cautioned against vaccinating children and young people until more data was available. Commenting on the rare side-effects reported he said that for people in their teens and early twenties “the risk and benefits might get closer to parity”.
He added: “That’s going to be true for virtually any other drug, or operation or medical intervention. There are always downsides to them and what you’re always doing in medicine is balancing risk against benefit. I, from the beginning of this, have been really cautious about making a policy on children getting vaccines until we are really confident about adults. And that’s not because I’m trying to protect children specifically, it’s just that children get so little problems with severe Covid, you’ve therefore got to make a very strong justification to vaccinate.”

Don't think anyone thinks children don't spread it - of course they do. And no-one really thinks schools are particularly safe, either - but that opening them is better for children and society than not opening them, and that it's an acceptable balance of risks and benefits. Scientists have always been fairly realistic about children and schools, and more so and more data comes in.

No sorry, this is the kind of ‘we didn’t really mean it’ gaslighting nonsense that I mean. Government ministers including our prime minister and backed by scientists repeatedly said schools are safe and kids don’t spread it. On that basis they sent teachers in, unmitigated. They don’t get to now pretend that of COURSE that isn’t true just because they now need us to all panic vaccinate our kids.

We will have the advantage of Israel and America having rolled out vaccinations with Pfizer for teenagers months before us. The data from them both will show any issues by the time we may have to decide in September. The media are saying it would be with Pfizer and the government just order extra Pfizer. So that is possibly correct.

I'm happy for mine to have it. He has a severe learning disability and being in hospital would be hell for him. Any vaccine that reduces the risk of that is worth having.

Max do you know what, I’ve no idea.
In my defence it was a while ago.
I shall ask!

I imagine the vaccinations will happen in school, so DC who don’t get it will be fairly public.
The kids will talk about it until their jaws fall apart.
The parents will talk about until their jaws fall apart.
The teachers will talk about until their jaws fall apart.
And if a kid catches Covid and bursts a bubble the other parents will draw their own conclusions, especially if child in question clearly did not have the vax.

A No they won’t. Kids will not care in the least who gets the vax and who doesn’t! They probably won’t even notice. It may not even be done in school.

And B - even assuming you’re right, which I don’t believe you are, I don’t care what other parents think about me. Certainly not enough to give my children a new vaccine against something that is vanishingly unlikely to harm them.

Plus C - If ‘bubbles burst’ then that’s a government policy? Surely if the adult population is vaccinated and the kids have been offered, then there’s no need for bubbles let alone sending anyone home?

@Totalbeach

The adults and children who are unable to have the vaccine

Most groups seem ‘able’ to have the vaccine. I also refer you back to my OP where I mentioned that 12 children under 15 in the U.K. have sadly died. Even those who may not be able to have the vaccine are very safe.

They haven't died because they have been shielding for for entire year. I know families with children who have been, under advice from their consultants, strictly shielding all year, not leaving their houses, not attending educational settings. Many people who are vulnerable and not yet vaccinated for whatever reason have been doing the same because it is not safe for them otherwise. So this is why all these vulnerable children haven't been dropping dead. Not because it is safe for them, because it isn't safe for them.

No they won’t. Kids will not care in the least who gets the vax and who doesn’t!

DDs friends have all expressed their jealousy “omg how did you manage that?” “You are so lucky” “My mum’s going to phone our doctors”

I would say there were another 50 or so 16/17/18 year olds in the queue with us, some that DD recognised from school. Of those she recognised, DD felt she was the youngest.

Anyone that thinks kids won't care or notice has never worked in a secondary school.

One of the other posters did a list of what would happen. Whilst I feel her list is a like extremely. She isn't that far off the mark. At least at our secondary.

I will not be giving consent for my children to have it - I don't believe we have enough long-term data on the risks in a younger population. I also have one child with a history of reacting to other vaccines so I would want a much more clearer longer-term picture before doing so.

I will also be persuing complaints right the way up as far as possible if school in any way shape or form tries to stigmatise kids who don't have the vaccination. If confidential information about my kids' medical history is leaked by the school to fuel playground gossip or "who popped the bubble blame" - again I'll be taking action and following up the ladder because I do not believe that it is ever acceptable behaviour - be it for any illness for people to behave like that.

I've had both jabs, both AZ jabs - but if I was still just booking mine now, with how toxic and threatening the discourse has come towards seeking gleefully to exclude those from society who can't, or won't have them - I would not be happy to do so. I was happy that the risks balanced out for myself in terms of the newness of the vaccine - but the way the govt and the govt cheerleaders have played things since then with the coercion of the whole vaccine passports idea, and gleeful suggestions of shunning... THAT is what instills distrust in me and rings alarm bells.

Mine will probably have it. Anything to reduce possible transmission of mutations. I've had it with them being lazy all year and the pandemic so the sooner this is declared over (2022? 🤞) the better.

It's irrelevant to me if they aren't likely to get ill. They could still prolong it by not being jabbed.

All those who say they won't consent for their children to have the vaccine. What if your child wants it...will you go against their wishes? Are you aware that children under the age of 16 are able to provide consent for medical treatment themselves provided they are Gillick competent?

I'll encourage my teenager to have it. I'm fully vaccinated but on medication that reduces its effectiveness. Too soon to know how much. My medical team have told me to stay out of supermarkets etc.

Yes, although they already have, plus any boosters, yes please.

Already had GCSE marks made up by teachers based on how clever she came across, including getting final marks lower than achieved in mocks.

Cannot imagine the hell of getting A level marks made up as well, by new teachers who taught her for one term without a mask, one term by video so not seeing her at all, and one term with a mask on all the time. Would be v surprised if they knew who she was really.

This not-education, but having to pretend it is, so no change to the year 12 curriculum and no allowances it made is really crap. DD has not had access to the library this year as they have to keep the year groups separate. There is one place to go for lunch and it is dominated by the popular kids, so quiet kids have nowhere. A final chance at normal school if only for one year might be nice.

Am happy to have my secondary aged child vaccinated. We personally see having the vaccine as part of being socially responsible. Also this virus will continue to mutate and could potentially rip through the unvaccinated population. I would feel happier with my child having it than not having it because of this reason.

Mine will have it. My 18 year old is very clear that he wants it

It won't be the school behaviour towards the unvaccinated kids though will it. The childs friends are the main issue. When everyone is talking about vaccinations. Like they will if done at school or not. You could tell your kid to lie but most wouldn't want to do that. My teenage weirdo will be fine if he ends up not having the jab. Peer pressure doesn't affect him at all. Some kids will be affected. Something the school and parents need to be aware and need to tackle. You are kidding yourselves if you think that will not happen though.