School pupils vaccinated from September

[Totalbeach]

This is in lots of papers today. Such as:

www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19274021.secondary-school-pupils-set-get-covid-jab-september/

And:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/nhs-england-draws-up-plan-to-give-covid-jabs-to-children-12-and-over

What’s your reaction?

Mine is that I 100% won’t be allowing my children to be vaccinated.

In the whole pandemic so far, 12 children under 15 have died in the U.K. That increases to 32 in the under 20s. The mortality rate is vanishingly tiny. A huge percentage of kids don’t even get symptoms at all.

The government has assured us till they are blue in the face that schools are safe and that children don’t spread it so it will be interesting to see what kind of enormous gaslighting they attempt to pull off to persuade parents they now need to vaccinate their kids.

The long term effects of the vaccines are totally unknown and recent events with AZ have proved rather horribly that even after a vaccine is rolled out, serious effects can come to light. Including events that disproportionately affect certain age groups.

I’m fully vaccinated (including first Covid vaccine) as are my kids but there is no way I’d let them be vaccinated in September. With any of the vaccines.

@ZZTopGuitarSolo I think that's sensible.

I wish the UK would do the same.

A secondary school near me has closed because of an outbreak with only exams years allowed on the premises when they are taking their exams.

Secondary age kids need to be vaccinated so they can actually go to school with the constant threat of isolation. They need their education to be stable

Well at least a town full of doctors will recognise the signs of myocarditis, which is turning up in teens after the second shot. At least 18 were hospitalised in Connecticut alone. I don’t know even think the younger age groups had the second shot yet so this is coming for them

Yes, they are good at recognising the signs of myocarditis, and have seen it in children who've had Covid. As they perform evidence-based medicine, they consider the risks of myocarditis from Covid much higher than the risk of myocarditis from the vaccination, hence they are having their children vaccinated.

They're smart like that.

I posted a bunch of stuff about it further up. I'll repeat it here in case you missed it.

www.livescience.com/myocarditis-covid-19-vaccines.html

The condition, called myocarditis, is also somewhat common, and the rate seen so far in vaccinated people does not differ from the baseline expected in the population, meaning there may be no link.

Cases of the heart condition following the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine have also been reported in Israel and Europe, and regulators there have so far found no link to the vaccines.

It’s not at all like measles. Or even the flu for this age cohort.

Actually it has similar mortality rates to flu for this age cohort, and that's before you even start looking at the after-effects of long Covid.

@Watapalava

Torvean

Our own medical officers and sage have both quoted that there’s no benefit to children having the vaccine other than to protect others, that it’s an ethical issue

Children’s risk is negligible so any risk at all from a vaccine tips the scale

Having followed the Cummings evidence today, I'm astonished that anyone is still trying to cite the UK medical officers and Sage as reliable sources of advice.

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

It’s not at all like measles. Or even the flu for this age cohort.

Actually it has similar mortality rates to flu for this age cohort, and that's before you even start looking at the after-effects of long Covid.

No it doesn’t. Flu is much worse for children, particularly those preschool age or younger. Here’s what the CDC says:

www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm#:~:text=The%20risk%20of%20complications%20for,both%20flu%20and%20COVID-19.&text=Young%20children%20are%20at%20higher%20risk%20of%20severe%20illness%20from%20flu.

Don’t forget they test nearly everyone for COVID prior to hospitalisation but rarely do it for seasonal flu which is why the CDC thinks the true numbers of children dying from flu are actually around 400-600 annually. You can access that info from the linked site as well.

Yes, they are good at recognising the signs of myocarditis, and have seen it in children who've had Covid. As they perform evidence-based medicine, they consider the risks of myocarditis from Covid much higher than the risk of myocarditis from the vaccination, hence they are having their children vaccinated

In fact, they do not know enough about those risks at all, which is why teens getting myocarditis after the second shot has made headlines. It was found in young Israeli males (they don’t vaccinate kids as young as the US yet) so very little to go off when trying to find individual risks for younger teens. You can’t make a proper risk-benefit calculation without this information.

In fact, they do not know enough about those risks at all, which is why teens getting myocarditis after the second shot has made headlines. It was found in young Israeli males (they don’t vaccinate kids as young as the US yet) so very little to go off when trying to find individual risks for younger teens. You can’t make a proper risk-benefit calculation without this information.

In fact they're watching the issue very carefully, but given that myocarditis among those receiving the vaccine is no higher than myocarditis among that age group generally they're struggling to find a link.

Whereas they have quite clearly seen issues with myocarditis among children who have had Covid, as I posted above in a piece from Johns Hopkins, quoting staff from the multidisciplinary team at Kennedy Krieger Institute’s Pediatric Post COVID-19 Rehabilitation Clinic, which addresses lingering coronavirus symptoms in children and teens. I'll repeat in case you missed it.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-long-haulers-long-term-effects-of-covid19#:~:text=SARS%2DCoV%2D2,palpitations%20and%20rapid%20heartbeat.

Long-hauler coronavirus symptoms in children and teens

It’s not yet known whether children who have had COVID-19 are more or less likely than adults to experience continuing symptoms. But long-term COVID-19 in children is a possibility, showing up as fatigue, depression, shortness of breath and other long-hauler symptoms.

Amanda Morrow, M.D., a specialist in physical medicine and rehabilitation, is part of the multidisciplinary team at Kennedy Krieger Institute’s Pediatric Post COVID-19 Rehabilitation Clinic, which addresses lingering coronavirus symptoms in children and teens. She says it isn't clear why long COVID-19 symptoms affect some children and not others.

“We are seeing patients who are often very high-functioning, healthy children who did not have any previous illnesses or medical conditions,” she says, noting that many of the kids being treated at the clinic only had mild bouts of COVID-19.

Heart inflammation after COVID-19 is a concern, especially among young athletes returning to their sports after a mild or even asymptomatic case of the coronavirus. They should be screened for any signs of heart damage to ensure it is safe for them to resume activity.

Kids who have experienced the (thankfully) very rare complication of COVID-19 called multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children, or MIS-C, can be left with serious heart damage, and should be followed by a pediatric cardiologist.

[quote smithyca]@Lucidas the swine flu vaccine gave people narcolepsy yet this wasn't picked up in any trails. I'm sure if you do some research you'll find some more information. [/quote]
That’s completely incorrect.

The risk of narcolepsy from pandermix was known about long before the vaccine roll out - that’s why so many of the legal compensation cases are still ongoing.

In fact they're watching the issue very carefully, but given that myocarditis among those receiving the vaccine is no higher than myocarditis among that age group generally they're struggling to find a link

They are not struggling to find a link. It comes within four days of the second MRNA shot.

This shit right here is why trust is dropping. People were also saying this same exact thing about the AZ vaccine (no worse than the background rate! Better than the BCP!). After unnecessary deaths among younger women, the guidance is finally changing.

Do we really want the same situation with Pfizer?

Younger teens will have to live with the consequences for a lot longer than we do, it was imperative that this should be all sorted beforehand! How many parents were told of the myocarditis risks before vaccinating their child?

Brilliant. Mine are very keen to have theirs. I've absolutely no concerns whatsoever

www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/pfizer-vaccine-heart-inflammation-myocarditis

It's important to note that the reported cases of myocarditis following vaccination "have not differed" from the number that would have occurred in the population even without the vaccine, the CDC points out. It's unclear whether this is a very rare side effect or just a coincidence that has no connection to the vaccine. But, per the CDC statement, members of the safety panel felt it was important to get the word out to health care providers.

Doctors aren't overly worried, so you shouldn't be either. "We know that COVID-19 can cause myocarditis," John Sellick, DO, an infectious disease expert and professor of medicine at the University at Buffalo/SUNY, tells Health. "But we've administered a huge number of the Pfizer vaccines in the US and we have not seen this."

Dr. Sellick points out that there's "always some background of this in the population" and that it's important to try to look at how often myocarditis happens among people under normal circumstances. About 3.1 million people in the world develop myocarditis each year, according to the Myocarditis Foundation.

Dr. Sellick also says he would be "very surprised" if there was a link between the Pfizer vaccine and heart inflammation. "If this was a vaccine with a live virus, you might say that, in a certain group of people, perhaps their hearts go haywire," he says. "But with this vaccine, it seems biologically implausible."

Martin J. Blaser, MD, professor of medicine and pathology and laboratory medicine at the Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School in New Jersey, tells Health that it's important to remember that this is a "rare, rare event" and that the link has not been proven. "There's no comparison between the risk and benefit of being vaccinated here," he says. "I want people to understand this."

Dr. Watkins agrees. "There is a far greater risk to the heart from COVID-19," he says.

Dr. Sellick urges people to stay calm. "This is an incredibly low risk, if the link is even proven," he says. "Hopefully, this doesn't get blow out of proportion."

@UsedUpUsername

In fact they're watching the issue very carefully, but given that myocarditis among those receiving the vaccine is no higher than myocarditis among that age group generally they're struggling to find a link

They are not struggling to find a link. It comes within four days of the second MRNA shot.

This shit right here is why trust is dropping. People were also saying this same exact thing about the AZ vaccine (no worse than the background rate! Better than the BCP!). After unnecessary deaths among younger women, the guidance is finally changing.

Do we really want the same situation with Pfizer?

Younger teens will have to live with the consequences for a lot longer than we do, it was imperative that this should be all sorted beforehand! How many parents were told of the myocarditis risks before vaccinating their child?

Trust is not dropping. Anti -vaxxers are shifting from story to story as their previous excuse is discredited.

2 ppl in France have come forward to say they were offered large amounts of money to discredit Pfizer which is the main vaccine used in France.

2 ppl in France have come forward to say they were offered large amounts of money to discredit Pfizer which is the main vaccine used in France

Pathetic.

The fact that the myocarditis risks of the MRNA were not clearly outlined before kids as young as twelve were getting their first shot is horrific and was so unnecessary.

There was no reason to push forward with the vaccine in otherwise healthy teens, they could have waited for further research while adults were wrapping up their second dose.

This and the AZ clusterfuck is why trust in vaccine programmes is dropping—this is not what we want, but dumb moves like this only increase people’s suspicions.

More experts weigh in.

newsroom.heart.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-benefits-still-outweigh-risks-despite-possible-rare-heart-complications

The benefits of COVID-19 vaccination enormously outweigh the rare, possible risk of heart-related complications, including inflammation of the heart muscle, or myocarditis. The American Heart Association/American Stroke Association, a global force for longer, healthier lives, urges all adults and children ages 12 and older in the U.S. to receive a COVID vaccine as soon as they can.

We implore everyone ages 12 and older to get vaccinated so we can return to being together, in person – enjoying life with little to no risk of severe COVID-19 infection, hospitalization or death.

100% no

I have a 25 and a 6 year old. I am keen for vaccination for both of mine. One has a long term condition that is autoimmune and the other with no health condition.

On the other hand I have spent the last 18 months working woth patients very very sick or dying of covid... I have seen the sharp end and have a very skewed view fair enough. But both of mine will be encouraged

I dont think I will let mine, no

We have a family history or autoimmune disorders and thrombocytopenia. I had the most awful reaction to AZ.

I want them protected but tbh are fine to continue with masks and distancing until we know more.

I have a personal history of thrombocytopenia and had absolutely no problems with the Moderna vaccine.

Parents might think they have control over whether or not their children have the jab. Well over the age of 13 they do not.

www.cqc.org.uk/guidance-providers/gps/gp-mythbuster-8-gillick-competency-fraser-guidelines

@krampie

Parents might think they have control over whether or not their children have the jab. Well over the age of 13 they do not.

OMG will people please stop trotting out the gillick competence as a kind of 'haha, your kids will get vaccinated even if you don't want them to' trump card. It's just nonsense. Most kids respect their parents. There will be a few rebels, but probably far more in the opposite direction - kids told to get jabbed by their parents who don't fancy getting the needle on the day. Schools will have lists of who is allowed and who is not. Unless kids actually come and ask for a vaccine, they'll call out the list of those allowed to go to the hall/wherever and be vaccinated.

On top of that, just because my kids are over a certain age doesn't mean I don't get to decide. They're good kids who will trust and respect my decision for them like they do in every other area of life. I'm 100% confident.

@UsedUpUsername

2 ppl in France have come forward to say they were offered large amounts of money to discredit Pfizer which is the main vaccine used in France

Pathetic.

The fact that the myocarditis risks of the MRNA were not clearly outlined before kids as young as twelve were getting their first shot is horrific and was so unnecessary.

There was no reason to push forward with the vaccine in otherwise healthy teens, they could have waited for further research while adults were wrapping up their second dose.

This and the AZ clusterfuck is why trust in vaccine programmes is dropping—this is not what we want, but dumb moves like this only increase people’s suspicions.

Absolutely right.

There is no valid excuse whatsoever for vaccinating children against something that doesn't affect them.

People should be aware that when they say the benefits outweigh the risks, they mean the benefits to society outweight the risks to your child. But I won't be letting them use my children to prop up a failing government, lower efficacy vaccine (AZ) and swathes of unvaccinated adults.

The CDC are having an emergency meeting to review the myocarditis risk:

abc7chicago.com/myocarditis-heart-inflammation-in-teens-covid-vaccine-cdc-emergency-meeting-pfizer/10780297/

Myocarditis leads to irreversible damage to the heart muscle which can manifest itself unpredictably later in life.

My children won't be getting any of the current vaccines. Corners have been cut on the preclinical toxicology work: I've read the MHRA brief and they just followed a typical vaccine protocol. The mRNA vaccines are not typical inactivated virus or viral antigen vaccines. They have a novel mechanism of action and novel ingredients (lipid nanoparticles and mRNA) on which very little tox work has been done. Shoddy work on behalf of the regulators.

Myocarditis is very serious. It’s not “mild” and can impose catastrophic problems later in life.

I implore any parent of a healthy child to watch what happens in the US before deciding. Please. The MHRA is not on it enough.