School pupils vaccinated from September

[Totalbeach]

This is in lots of papers today. Such as:

www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19274021.secondary-school-pupils-set-get-covid-jab-september/

And:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/nhs-england-draws-up-plan-to-give-covid-jabs-to-children-12-and-over

What’s your reaction?

Mine is that I 100% won’t be allowing my children to be vaccinated.

In the whole pandemic so far, 12 children under 15 have died in the U.K. That increases to 32 in the under 20s. The mortality rate is vanishingly tiny. A huge percentage of kids don’t even get symptoms at all.

The government has assured us till they are blue in the face that schools are safe and that children don’t spread it so it will be interesting to see what kind of enormous gaslighting they attempt to pull off to persuade parents they now need to vaccinate their kids.

The long term effects of the vaccines are totally unknown and recent events with AZ have proved rather horribly that even after a vaccine is rolled out, serious effects can come to light. Including events that disproportionately affect certain age groups.

I’m fully vaccinated (including first Covid vaccine) as are my kids but there is no way I’d let them be vaccinated in September. With any of the vaccines.

The freedom alliance is just a bunch of Covid denying anti-vaxxers.

Why would ppl take advice from a group with no medical or scientific background?

Torvean

Our own medical officers and sage have both quoted that there’s no benefit to children having the vaccine other than to protect others, that it’s an ethical issue

Children’s risk is negligible so any risk at all from a vaccine tips the scale

This story is from Feb this year - did something happen since then where the government and Sage said that children should not be vaccinated? Because it looks an awful like what they are saying is that actually it's really important that children are vaccinated if the UK is to get back to normal.

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-vaccine-rollout-should-turn-to-children-as-fast-as-we-can-says-sage-expert-12224817

COVID-19: UK vaccine rollout should turn to children 'as fast as we can', says SAGE expert

Oxford University is studying the safety and immune responses in children and young adults of their coronavirus vaccine.

There is a "value" in giving COVID jabs to children, the health secretary has told Sky News - as a leading scientist said the UK's vaccine rollout should turn to younger age groups "as fast as we can".

Speaking to the Sophy Ridge on Sunday programme, Matt Hancock said clinical trials on the use of vaccines for children would determine both the safety and efficacy of giving jabs to younger age groups.

He said: "There are two points here; one is that it absolutely must be safe, specifically for children, so that is being currently investigated.

"And the second is - because children very, very rarely get symptoms and serious illness from the disease - the value, the importance of vaccinating children is to try to stop the spread of the disease and obviously that's something - the impact of the vaccine on stopping transmission is something - that we have early evidence of.

"It looks like the first jab reduces your impact of transmitting the disease by about two-thirds - but we need more evidence on that as well."

Meanwhile, Professor John Edmunds - a member of the government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) - warned that until everyone - including children - has been vaccinated there will be "significant risk of a resurgence" of the virus.

"I think there's an argument for turning to children as fast as we can," he told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show.

"I mean, I have two children myself, they are in secondary schools and I think that there has been major disruption at schools and there will continue to be major disruption in schools until we have vaccinated our children."

I didn't italicise the quotes there, but that's all directly from the story.

It’s too early for kids, we don’t know if they are safe, a u turn was already made on AZ as the benefit didn’t outweigh the risk. I think next year in the summer or winter I will let them, once I’m absolutely sure it’s as safe as others

Mine are young though so may not even count?

Not ethical, your children won't forgive you for allowing them to be an experiment and at risk... for what exactly??

@Gymsmile21

It’s too early for kids, we don’t know if they are safe, a u turn was already made on AZ as the benefit didn’t outweigh the risk. I think next year in the summer or winter I will let them, once I’m absolutely sure it’s as safe as others

It's not too early for kids. There have been trials on children over 11. And the next studies are age 6plus.

They won't keep vaccine centres open forever to accommodate ppl when they decide they actually do want one.

Your child if deemed competent can also decide to have it even if their parents may not agree.

My friends children in Boston, 12 and 14 have just been vaccinated, so some parts of the US are vaccinating them already. I wish we would get a move on. My children cannot be close to their grandparents until they have been vaccinated. Also my 14 year old son is the size of a grown adult which makes me think covid could hit him quite hard. Oh and I want them to avoid long covid. Just read about another previously fit 13 year old who has this months after catching covid.

I actually think vaxxing kids really does benefit them (not just LC) but mainly because they only get say 16y of childhood and so far already over 1/16 is

• clubs opening /shutting

Schools Stuck home not even supposed to see friends outside for some of it No parties No school disco Hand washing/sanitiser Missing swimming lessons - including school ones School trips 10d off or a test for every cough with no school work

I dont think theyve list the most but they are losing the above. (Plus gp/parents not seeing or dying).

But i am more nervous of the vax.
With say AZ only working as well as it does they definitely need higher uptake than just 16+.

Nearly 50% of the 11-16 year olds in my town got their first shot in the last 2 weeks.

Town full of doctors.

Life is rapidly getting back to normal.

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

Nearly 50% of the 11-16 year olds in my town got their first shot in the last 2 weeks.

Town full of doctors.

Life is rapidly getting back to normal.

Well at least a town full of doctors will recognise the signs of myocarditis, which is turning up in teens after the second shot. At least 18 were hospitalised in Connecticut alone. I don’t know even think the younger age groups had the second shot yet so this is coming for them:

www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/coronavirus/connecticut-confirms-at-least-18-cases-of-apparent-heart-problems-in-young-people-after-covid-19-vaccination/2494534/?fbclid=IwAR0Nli-G2l2tg_LSYZdFJLCJSuEgWUBIdsEpL-5StAfpXVe3dAJJ2Jyu3II&amp

www.nytimes.com/2021/05/22/health/cdc-heart-teens-vaccination.amp.html

Of course, kids not from families of doctors may be at more risk :/

This should be bigger news. I’m old enough to remember when they threatened to cancel college sports because athletes were supposedly getting COVID-induced myocarditis:

www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/31275391/study-shows-less-1-covid-infected-college-athletes-developed-heart-issues%3fplatform=amp

Now hardly a peep from the usual suspects

Worst thing is that the heart inflammation problems were a known side effect from the Israeli data so the fact that this is getting pushed onto even younger kids is really not ok.

Only kids with certain risk factors should be getting the shots, not otherwise healthy children. This tweet thread lays the case out nicely:

mobile.twitter.com/VPrasadMDMPH/status/1396277191550242816

Also germane to the topic at hand:

nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2021/05/study-number-of-kids-hospitalized-for-covid-is-overcounted.html?__twitter_impression=true

There’s an overcount by at least 40% on the numbers of kids ‘hospitalised’ with COVID. A lot
of these cases are kids admitted for other things, but test positive due to universal testing protocols.

I very much want my Dc who has vulnerabilities to be offered a vaccine.

I would rather my children are vaccinated than roll the dice with covid.
Some children do become very ill and die, a bit like measles.
It’s a small number but I would never forgive myself if m child suffered because of me.

I want all children vaccinated, including my own.

Those on here who talk about the cost to their children’s future should be begging for them to be vaccinated.

If we don’t vaccinate children, the Indian variant will rip through the naive population of a school, closing schools down for at least a month at a time.

The idea that vaccines are dangerous for children is nonsense. Far better an ‘experimental’ vaccine than an experimental disease. Even if the death rate for vaccines is higher (unproven), it is still a tiny number and who wants their children sick with long term COVID side effects?

For everyone’s sake, we need vaccination as close to 100% of the population as we can get it.

I work in a school. Most children who got it were not symptomatic but a few felt pretty rotten and one has a sudden onset neurological condition that her neurologist thinks is as a result of having Covid. My own children will definitely be getting it.

Unvaccinated kids at some point won’t affect schools closing because isolation of contacts will be stopping soon anyway with all trials going on

@Borderterrierpuppy

I would rather my children are vaccinated than roll the dice with covid. Some children do become very ill and die, a bit like measles. It’s a small number but I would never forgive myself if m child suffered because of me.

It’s not at all like measles. Or even the flu for this age cohort.

DS is 17 and wants the vaccine. Is there an update on when they will actually be offered it?

I want all children vaccinated, including my own

That should be left to each individual family.

Those on here who talk about the cost to their children’s future should be begging for them to be vaccinated

Why? Adults are largely vaccinated, especially the more vulnerable, so we can actually get back to normal at this point.

If we don’t vaccinate children, the Indian variant will rip through the naive population of a school, closing schools down for at least a month at a time

Load of scaremongering nonsense.

The idea that vaccines are dangerous for children is nonsense. Far better an ‘experimental’ vaccine than an experimental disease. Even if the death rate for vaccines is higher (unproven), it is still a tiny number and who wants their children sick with long term COVID side effects?

We have data from the last year on COVID. Less so for the vaccine so why not proceed with caution? The EUA should really be limited to vulnerable children, not given to otherwise healthy kids.

For everyone’s sake, we need vaccination as close to 100% of the population as we can get it

We don’t, actually. We just need vulnerable populations (defined by age/health/weight) vaccinated. The vaccine is wonderful for those at risk, the benefit is a little less clear for everyone else.

@UsedUpUsername,

How is it scaremongering nonsense to say schools will close? If an illness with an r of 4-6 goes into a population with little to no immunity, swathes of children will be home sick.

You cannot continue to teach effectively to half a class.

Children have already missed enough education. Why wilfully expose them to an illness that will almost certainly cause them to miss another couple of weeks (and feel grotty into the bargain).

Funny how vaccines are experimental when tested but one year of COVID data on children means we already know all the long term effects. At least, be consistent!

Children have already missed enough education. Why wilfully expose them to an illness that will almost certainly cause them to miss another couple of weeks (and feel grotty into the bargain)

School closures are really not the norm for any illness. Why not do what we’ve done forever—which is if an individual child feels sick, they stay home? Preventing school spread was never ever about the children, it was about protecting vulnerable adults. Well, now they’re vaccinated, so what are we waiting for?

Funny how vaccines are experimental when tested but one year of COVID data on children means we already know all the long term effects. At least, be consistent!

We have data about how children are affected by COVID—so why not use the EUA just for vulnerable children?

We know that healthy children are relatively unaffected, it’s profoundly sick children who get seriously ill. It should be reserved for them, and them alone.

There’s hardly any downsides to waiting for more data on the vaccines—and the upside is really of limited benefit to this age group.

It’s not the same risk calculation as for older adults. Here’s a great BMJ opinion article on this:
blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/05/07/covid-vaccines-for-children-should-not-get-emergency-use-authorization/

An excerpt:

Trials for covid-19 vaccines are also underway for children as young as 6 months. These trials are not powered to measure decreases in severe covid-19 infections, due to their rarity in this age group. Instead, these trials are examining safety, the immune response, and, as a secondary outcome, the impact on the incidence of covid-19 infections. As for adults, these trials are not designed to assess rare or delayed adverse events. Unlike for adults, the rarity of severe covid-19 outcomes for children means that trials cannot demonstrate that the balance of the benefits of vaccination against the potential adverse effects are favorable to the children themselves. In short, given the rarity of severe clinical courses and limited clarity of risks, the criteria for emergency use authorization do not appear to be met for children

As I've said before, I'd only consent for my children to have it if it meant no bubbles at school, no isolations etc.

Well now the consensus according to the papers is that self isolating for close contacts will continue even if a person is fully vaccinated! So there would still be considerable disruption to schools, especially if covid bounces around in the form of a cold (highly likely) when it becomes endemic.

@ILookAtTheFloor

As I've said before, I'd only consent for my children to have it if it meant no bubbles at school, no isolations etc.

Well now the consensus according to the papers is that self isolating for close contacts will continue even if a person is fully vaccinated! So there would still be considerable disruption to schools, especially if covid bounces around in the form of a cold (highly likely) when it becomes endemic.

Schools here are not requiring fully vaccinated students or teachers to quarantine any more.