Page 28 | School pupils vaccinated from September

wonderstuff · 13/05/2021 22:01

I would have dd 13 vaccinated, I think that the risk of long covid is significant enough to justify the very very tiny risk of harm and the short term side effects.

I don't think that it's ethical though to be vaccinating children while so many older and vulnerable adults across the world are unvaccinated. I'd rather we donated vaccine to low income countries. I think it would be in our interests to do so as well, we rely heavily upon international trade, no one safe until everyone is and all that.

MissConductUS · 13/05/2021 22:21

I'd rather we donated vaccine to low income countries.

I agree, but it has to be a vaccine they have the infrastructure required for distribution. So AZ and J&J, fine, but as far as I know only Pfizer and Moderna are doing pediatric trials and low-income countries don't have the cold chain in place for the mRNA jabs.

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 13/05/2021 22:25

@littlepeas

Not at the moment. That’s not to say I never would, but I’d like to see more data on the blood clot risk before I allow my dc to be vaccinated. That said, I’m assuming they will get Pfizer or Moderna as they’re under 30. Undecided!

Exactly this. I have a 4 year old and a - year old, not going to let them be used as guinea pigs, I'm sure it's probably safe for children but will wait for data...

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 13/05/2021 22:48

I wonder what is more risky in terms of deaths / hospitalisations - covid or chicken pox (for children)

Before the chickenpox vaccine was rolled out in the US the death rate was approx 100 children per year. So Covid is currently more risky (and that's with lockdown, social distancing and mask-wearing).

Hospitalisations - I don't have figures.

Once enough people are vaccinated, and Covid stops circulating, then it's no longer risky. But it's tough to achieve herd immunity if you don't vaccinate children.

UsedUpUsername · 14/05/2021 03:48

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

In the U.S., just over 100 children under age 15 died from COVID-19 in 2020. They account for 0.03% of the 376,000 COVID-19 deaths since the virus hit the country last spring and less than 0.5% of the 26,000 total child deaths from all causes

The US was on lockdown for large parts of 2020. Schools were closed. Covid was spreading mostly among the adult population.

Covid is much more of an issue in 2021, since we came out of lockdown and since schools have reopened.

Where are the numbers? You know schools are open in many States in like Texas, Georgia and Florida last year!

UsedUpUsername · 14/05/2021 03:50

@MissConductUS

Where’s the proof that’s an undercount?

Since they only tally a death when the reporting process works perfectly, it would almost have to be. It's a widely acknowledged problem.

US COVID Deaths May Be Undercounted by 36 Percent

At 300+ deaths in children under 18 in the USA ... that’s less than seasonal flu iirc averages 400 annually

It's certainly a smaller problem than it is for the older cohorts, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce it. And kids can suffer considerably even if their case doesn't require hospitalization. Avoiding the infection reduces human suffering.

That entire article is about adults and uses excess deaths to make that specific argument. Only ... excess death is down among children last year.

There is no basis to make be making this claim

UsedUpUsername · 14/05/2021 04:02

We do vaccinate against flu in the US, which is partly why we don't worry about it. The flu vaccine is recommended for all children over 6 months

You must know that the flu vaccine isn’t really like COVID and isn’t nearly as effective. You should just take the L here—you know the reason is because people just accept a few hundred kids dying of flu every year in the US because nothing more can be done about it. Hardly any school or kid event gets cancelled due to an outbreak of flu—once kids realise the great harm done to them, they should be livid, it didn’t really affect them at all. I hope they don’t forgive easily.

We will have a lost generation in America and the adults did this to them for no reason other than panic and selfishness. You should look at those studies where even one year of missed schooling led to poorer life outcomes. It’s sad and frustrating. Thank god some states had sense and quickly reversed school closures.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 14/05/2021 06:15

"Less Covid flying around school will still benefit me and my kids even though I’d fully understand if others didn’t vaccinate"
*
*
Breathtakingly selfish!

Ninefeettall · 14/05/2021 08:06

"Less Covid flying around school will still benefit me and my kids even though I’d fully understand if others didn’t vaccinate"**

What on Earth has happened with your attempt to quote here?

But also it’s not selfish as everyone has the choice not to vaccinate their kids. I personally don’t think they should vaccinate their kids. I can’t imagine why anyone would. But if they do and it lowers transmission then that still benefits me even if I don’t think it’s a benefit anyone should be creating.

Ninefeettall · 14/05/2021 08:07

Lot of people from the US on this thread about the potential rollout of the vaccine in Britain.

I suspect people are feeling defensive about allowing their children to go to the front of the line to see if the vaccine is safe.

1dayatatime · 14/05/2021 08:21

@Watapalava

"Chickenpox parties are still pretty common in my area"

+++++++

Although symptoms are usually mild in children they may be life-threatening to adults and people of any age with weak immune systems.

Complications include
Secondary bacterial infections
Pneumonia (lung infections)
Encephalitis (inflammation of the brain)
Cerebellar ataxia (defective muscular coordination)
Transverse myelitis (inflammation along the spinal cord)
Reye syndrome. This is a serious condition marked by a group of symptoms that may affect all major systems or organs.
Death

Virtually every other first world country vaccinates their children against chickenpox except the UK.

I would and have vaccinated my children against chickenpox way way before I would ever consider vaccinating them for Covid simply based on the real and proven probability of health risk to them versus the risk of the vaccines.

Chickenpox parties for children are simply barbaric and those that do are ignorantly putting their children's health at risk. Imagine the outrage there would rightly be if someone on MN suggested Covid parties for children where ironically the health risks to children are actually lower than chickenpox.

1dayatatime · 14/05/2021 08:24

Following on from my earlier post I wonder how many of the parents posting here that they would vaccinate their children against Covid have vaccinated their children against chickenpox.

Remmy123 · 14/05/2021 08:27

@1dayatatime but that vaccine has been around for years and years - this is a new vaccine!

Surely any concerned parent would feel hesitant vaccinating their child so soon?

UsedUpUsername · 14/05/2021 08:31

@1dayatatime

Following on from my earlier post I wonder how many of the parents posting here that they would vaccinate their children against Covid have vaccinated their children against chickenpox.

It’s because they actually have to pay for the chickenpox vaccine 😂

1dayatatime · 14/05/2021 08:57

[quote Remmy123]@1dayatatime but that vaccine has been around for years and years - this is a new vaccine!

Surely any concerned parent would feel hesitant vaccinating their child so soon?[/quote]
You are absolutely right and that is exactly my point.

Logically given the long term record of the risks of the chickenpox vaccine versus the Covid vaccine for children set against the health risk to children and especially young adults of chickenpox versus Covid you would vaccinate children for chickenpox way way ahead of a Covid vaccine.

MissConductUS · 14/05/2021 13:46

@Ninefeettall

Lot of people from the US on this thread about the potential rollout of the vaccine in Britain.

I suspect people are feeling defensive about allowing their children to go to the front of the line to see if the vaccine is safe.

As far as I know, I'm the only actual American on the thread. I believe ZZtop is an ex-pat Brit who was exiled to the colonies for some reason.

My fully vaccinated kids are 19 and 21 years old, so I actually have no dog in this fight. But by all means, let's make it personal and resort to xenophobia and psychological projection.

MissConductUS · 14/05/2021 14:10

That entire article is about adults and uses excess deaths to make that specific argument. Only ... excess death is down among children last year.

There is no basis to make be making this claim

The point of the article was that the system has a structural bias towards undercounting. This happens in other health data as well. I am in the vaccination statistics as only having had the first jab for the simple reason that I had my first jab at a state-run site and my second at a Federal military installation.

And if you think covid is always a doodle for kids, read this.

Why are so many babies dying of Covid-19 in Brazil?

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 16/05/2021 18:40

Where are the numbers? You know schools are open in many States in like Texas, Georgia and Florida last year!

We will have a lost generation in America and the adults did this to them for no reason other than panic and selfishness. You should look at those studies where even one year of missed schooling led to poorer life outcomes. It’s sad and frustrating. Thank god some states had sense and quickly reversed school closures.

How interesting that you're trying to argue both that schools were not shut down last year, and therefore that my argument that Covid rates last year did not reflect 'normal life' is incorrect, while at the same time insisting that the shutdowns last year were deeply damaging to American children.

So which is it?

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 16/05/2021 18:44

@1dayatatime

Following on from my earlier post I wonder how many of the parents posting here that they would vaccinate their children against Covid have vaccinated their children against chickenpox.

My children are older, were not offered the vaccine on the NHS in the UK, and I was not aware that a vaccine was available privately. So they have had chickenpox, which means they are also at risk of getting shingles later in life.

If I had known the vaccine was available they absolutely would have had it.

It's good that we now have things like Mumsnet where we can find out this information, isn't it?

UsedUpUsername · 16/05/2021 21:15

How interesting that you're trying to argue both that schools were not shut down last year, and therefore that my argument that Covid rates last year did not reflect 'normal life' is incorrect, while at the same time insisting that the shutdowns last year were deeply damaging to American children

How interesting you are presumably an American and you do not seem to realise that different states have different policies!

You seem to be operating under the delusion that the reason why children were relatively unaffected is that they were locked down and out of school.

Unfortunately only a handful of states were brave enough to fight back this very unscientific mindset.

Even though COVID is less deadly than the flu for this age cohort, the majority of states suspended in-person schooling and most extracurriculars and sports. For something that never really affected them.

It was the panicked response by adults that should have known better that took all that away needlessly.

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 16/05/2021 23:48

I see my point went right over your head. Ah well.

Whatshouldicallme · 17/05/2021 09:08

Yes, I would. Vaccines are one of modern medicine's greatest accomplishments. Children get all sorts of vaccines because the risk posed by an individual vaccine is much much smaller than the risk posed by the disease it will prevent. COVID is a worldwide nightmare that needs to end.

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 17/05/2021 09:10

In the whole pandemic so far, 12 children under 15 have died in the U.K. That increases to 32 in the under 20s. The mortality rate is vanishingly tiny. A huge percentage of kids don’t even get symptoms at all.

If the only people who got vaccinated were the ones likely to die from covid we would never get it under control. The point of vaccinating kids is to work towards herd immunity and suppressing vaccine mutation, not to stop the kids getting covid for its own sake.
Even my anti vax anti bug pharma dad grasps this and got his vaccine when he won't take his kidney stone or glaucoma medication without being nagged. It's for the greater good.
I for one will be lining my kid up at the earliest opportunity.

FinallyHere · 17/05/2021 10:20

The government has assured us till they are blue in the face that schools are safe and that children don’t spread it so it will be interesting to see what kind of enormous gaslighting they attempt to pull off to persuade parents they now need to vaccinate their kids.

Surely you are being disingenuous here. It can't have escaped your notice that the leader of HM'd current government are no strangers to the 'use whatever current truth is expedient'

Last year they were keen to have students back in school to provide childcare, so that parents could get back to work. And the outbreaks that followed that approach.

This year , children can be vaccinated.

Why would you hesitate, if only to protect teachers and ensure that schools can remain open.

Why wouldn't you ?

UsedUpUsername · 17/05/2021 10:55

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

I see my point went right over your head. Ah well.

What is your point?

You seem to think the lockdowns protect children (thus they will be affected when restrictions lift), when the data clearly says otherwise.