School pupils vaccinated from September

[Totalbeach]

This is in lots of papers today. Such as:

www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19274021.secondary-school-pupils-set-get-covid-jab-september/

And:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/nhs-england-draws-up-plan-to-give-covid-jabs-to-children-12-and-over

What’s your reaction?

Mine is that I 100% won’t be allowing my children to be vaccinated.

In the whole pandemic so far, 12 children under 15 have died in the U.K. That increases to 32 in the under 20s. The mortality rate is vanishingly tiny. A huge percentage of kids don’t even get symptoms at all.

The government has assured us till they are blue in the face that schools are safe and that children don’t spread it so it will be interesting to see what kind of enormous gaslighting they attempt to pull off to persuade parents they now need to vaccinate their kids.

The long term effects of the vaccines are totally unknown and recent events with AZ have proved rather horribly that even after a vaccine is rolled out, serious effects can come to light. Including events that disproportionately affect certain age groups.

I’m fully vaccinated (including first Covid vaccine) as are my kids but there is no way I’d let them be vaccinated in September. With any of the vaccines.

Both my children will be vaccinated at the first opportunity

You believe and trust the government that covid doesn't affect children despite plenty of evidence to the contrary but yet you don't believe or trust their advice on a safe vaccine. Makes a lot of sense. But let's hope your child is one of the ones it doesn't affect and therefore you can carry along scuttling around not needing to use the NHS.
You clearly haven't had much need to use it and that's just pure luck absolutely nothing else.

@jumpbounce

You believe and trust the government that covid doesn't affect children despite plenty of evidence to the contrary but yet you don't believe or trust their advice on a safe vaccine. Makes a lot of sense. But let's hope your child is one of the ones it doesn't affect and therefore you can carry along scuttling around not needing to use the NHS. You clearly haven't had much need to use it and that's just pure luck absolutely nothing else.

Nope, I think kids can spread it. But that is not the government's official position. Nor their scientists. They even took legal action against a school that tried to close when it was being decimated by the Kent variant. They will find it very, very hard to now argue that they believe children all need to be vaccinated to keep them safe.

I've needed the NHS plenty. It's not at risk of being overwhelmed due to children having Covid though. And the adult population will be vaccinated by then so shouldn't be at risk from them spreading it either.

Children are affected by covid in terms of physical health, mental health, bereavement and very importantly loss of education. Loss of education could be reduced as a result of vaccination in children.

No answer, @totalbeach ?

Remarkable similarities to a previous poster who used to frequent these threads but never had an actual logical response to questions, so instead ignored them.

Ah well.

So what if it doesn't affect them? They can still carry it and infect other people who may be affected badly. It is totally selfish not to have a vaccine in a global pandemic. Not to mention they won't be allowed to travel if not vaccinated

total

The government has assured us till they are blue in the face that schools are safe and that children don’t spread it so it will be interesting to see what kind of enormous gaslighting they attempt to pull off to persuade parents they now need to vaccinate their kids.

I think the government were gaslighting when they maintained schools were safe & that they wouldn't be the cause of infections spreading. It was not the case but was stated as fact. Head teachers were also told to inform staff and parents that schools were not going to spread covid. Masks were banned. We now know this was wrong.

The more people vaccinated the better.

Take for example 1 in every 10 people who has been vaccinated is not protected. We then allow children to spread covid freely among communities , I can't be bothered working on exact figures but say 40 million people are vaccinated, just 10% of those aren't protected and you end up with 4 million people at risk of needing hospitalisation or death from covid. That's without considering variants evading vaccination or the fact we don't yet know how long immunity from vaccination will last and if people will need boosters which would also take time to roll out etc.

@jumpbounce

Children are affected by covid in terms of physical health, mental health, bereavement and very importantly loss of education. Loss of education could be reduced as a result of vaccination in children.

Loss of education can also be reduced by not isolating the children due to a harmless illness once the risk of them spreading it to the vaccinated adult population has been largely removed.

@jumpbounce

Take for example 1 in every 10 people who has been vaccinated is not protected. We then allow children to spread covid freely among communities , I can't be bothered working on exact figures but say 40 million people are vaccinated, just 10% of those aren't protected and you end up with 4 million people at risk of needing hospitalisation or death from covid. That's without considering variants evading vaccination or the fact we don't yet know how long immunity from vaccination will last and if people will need boosters which would also take time to roll out etc.

No that's false. That 10% is massively less likely to catch the virus because the virus won't spread through the rest of the vaccinated adult population. You're basing this on the assumption that 4 million people all come into direct and close contact with a child with covid.

If the vaccine immunity fades fast then children getting vaccinated or not is the least of our worries tbh.

And again you ignore the CEV children who aren't vaccinated but are also in those educational settings. So long as your healthy child gets an uninterrupted education without you having to bother vaccinating them eh? Those pesky vulnerable children can just stay at home and not receive the education they are as entitled to as any other or get ill from covid so your child doesn't have to be inconvenienced by either isolation or vaccination.
Equally the vulnerable adults who for a variety of reasons may not be able to be vaccinated and the proportion of the population who will not be protected from the vaccine.

@AnotherSunrise

So what if it doesn't affect them? They can still carry it and infect other people who may be affected badly. It is totally selfish not to have a vaccine in a global pandemic. Not to mention they won't be allowed to travel if not vaccinated

They will be allowed to travel. Probably with no mitigation as it's going to be very hard to mandate medical procedures on children but if not then with a negative test. I also personally don't mind my children not travelling for a year or two since we can't afford it anyway haha.

But as to your main point - most of the people they can affect badly will be vaccinated. The other children will be vanishingly unlikely to be affected badly. And it's not selfish to not consent to unnecessary medical treatment.

@jumpbounce

And again you ignore the CEV children who aren't vaccinated but are also in those educational settings. So long as your healthy child gets an uninterrupted education without you having to bother vaccinating them eh? Those pesky vulnerable children can just stay at home and not receive the education they are as entitled to as any other or get ill from covid so your child doesn't have to be inconvenienced by either isolation or vaccination. Equally the vulnerable adults who for a variety of reasons may not be able to be vaccinated and the proportion of the population who will not be protected from the vaccine.

It must be devastating to have a vulnerable child. I'm grateful every day for my children's health. But I (like most people) will always consider my own children first. I don't think it's in their best interests to have a new vaccine with unknown long-term effects to protect them from an illness they are unlikely to even get symptoms from let alone serious ones.

If everyone thought the same way that they weren't at risk so why would they consent to unnecessary medical treatment then the whole basis of your point of adults being vaccinated and therefore lower risks would be mute. People like you can only make decisions like this because the covid risk is lower due to millions of other people who aren't at risk themselves being able to see the bigger picture and vaccinating!

There's also no reason why most vulnerable children won't be vaccinated. Not all, I realise, but many. And the ones that aren't, are sadly at equal if not greater risk from many other childhood illnesses that fly freely around schools.

@Totalbeach

There's also no reason why most vulnerable children won't be vaccinated. Not all, I realise, but many. And the ones that aren't, are sadly at equal if not greater risk from many other childhood illnesses that fly freely around schools.

Honestly not true, until you know the medical history of all these children then you cannot comment on their level of risk. Do you honestly think they shielded children for a year if the risk was the same or lesser than any usual virus in school? Course they didn't!

A lot of 'shielding' children went back to school as more information was known. Of those remaining many will be eligible for vaccine and I can absolutely see why a parent would do it in those circumstances. And of those who can't be vaccinated because they are too poorly, then yes, their immune systems would also be at risk from other illnesses.

@Totalbeach

A lot of 'shielding' children went back to school as more information was known. Of those remaining many will be eligible for vaccine and I can absolutely see why a parent would do it in those circumstances. And of those who can't be vaccinated because they are too poorly, then yes, their immune systems would also be at risk from other illnesses.

Some people can't be vaccinated because of something as simple as allergies not just because of immune system problems.

Equally there is not too many other common run of the mill illnesses out there that we don't have known treatments and cures for.

Gosh there are lots.

But anyway, I don't think it's reasonable to expect all children to be vaccinated against largely harmless illnesses to protect the vulnerable. We haven't even vaccinated children against chicken pox in this country till now and that is a really horrible illness that can sometimes be serious in children. Children are not human shields.

@Totalbeach

Gosh there are lots.

But anyway, I don't think it's reasonable to expect all children to be vaccinated against largely harmless illnesses to protect the vulnerable. We haven't even vaccinated children against chicken pox in this country till now and that is a really horrible illness that can sometimes be serious in children. Children are not human shields.

Yeh sure let's all stop vaccination completely. No children are going to contract measles, mumps or rubella anymore and get seriously ill or die so let's stop using them as a human shields for that and all those other vaccines we give as well for things that don't even exist anymore. Pointless waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere in the NHS.

Those diseases have a serious effect on children. We are not vaccinating them to protect others but to protect themselves. I can see the ethics in that. But Covid doesn't have a serious effect on the enormously vast majority of children so vaccinating them is not about protecting their health. Therefore I can't see that it's ethical, especially when the long-term effects of the vaccine aren't known.

We can agree to disagree, sure it won't be worth worrying about in a few weeks anyway when all the vaccinated have died from the cold caused by spike proteins. I'll be long gone before I need to make any vaccination decisions for the DC

Children are more at risk from the thousands of chemicals they’re exposed to every day in food, cleaners and the environment than they are the vaccine. That doesn’t mean I’m a conspiracy but about the previous! I’m not. Just pointing out risks are everywhere and the vaccine is a very tiny and worthwhile one

Children aren't little adults. The fact the vaccine is pretty safe for adults is irrelevant for developing children. My dd is 9 so theoretical right now but there's no way the risk benefit to her tips in favour of vaccination at the moment. I had the minor side effects of az with shivers, fever, tinnitus, headache... and it was pretty nasty but worth it. I wouldn't want to put her through that. I've given her every vaccine, flu jab and paid for extras so the insults people hurl around don't bother me.

As for protecting others, she's lost 5% of her education and will spend her life paying back the billions we've spent so have more taxes and less public services. I think that's plenty without risking blood clots or heart problems.

If she'd like it in a few years time then that's fine. If she was over 12 she'd have the final say.