To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

YANBU. And it's going to make some people in the UK nervous about getting it now, when we were doing so well! A colleague of mine is saying she doesn't want AZ now, only Pfizer.

All the more vaccines for us 🤷🏽‍♀️

They’ve still got a cob on that they are so far behind us. It’s going to be even worse now.

@Waxonwaxoff0 - that's the bit that worries me. Our vaccine uptake rates had been so high up til now, but the expectation was that they would drop a bit when we got into the 'likely just to be a cold' age-groups. This is likely to make them drop further.

I understand that the countries who have suspended AZ are those where there is high levels of vaccine-concern, and they have to be seen to be taking this seriously so as not to play into those concerns. But, on the basis of the science, it's utterly disproportionate. And, in terms of the knock-on here, the timing couldn't be worse.

YABU. If they have concerns they should investigate. If the concerns are unfounded, they can resume the programme. Calling them utter fuckwits for doing so is childish and unnecessary.
Having said that, I have had the AZ vaccine and am not in the least bit worried.

(I'm also concerned that this may prompt an export ban on Pfizer. This effects me personally - my second dose is due at the end of the month.)

Yep I am raging over it. It will stop people everywhere from taking up the AZ and it will cost lives.
I was a remainer but considering how badly the EU has behaved and the messages from the individual government they can fuck off the lot of them

It not about politics. It's about healthy people dying after having the vaccine. I'm pleased my country have suspended using it pending further investigation. Ignoring the deaths and ploughing on regardless is reckless.

[quote Motorina]@Waxonwaxoff0 - that's the bit that worries me. Our vaccine uptake rates had been so high up til now, but the expectation was that they would drop a bit when we got into the 'likely just to be a cold' age-groups. This is likely to make them drop further.

I understand that the countries who have suspended AZ are those where there is high levels of vaccine-concern, and they have to be seen to be taking this seriously so as not to play into those concerns. But, on the basis of the science, it's utterly disproportionate. And, in terms of the knock-on here, the timing couldn't be worse.[/quote]
Yes this is my concern too. It's fuel for the anti vaxxers to get their claws into more people. I know a lot of people in my age group (early 30s) are already reluctant to have it and this will make it worse.

@FatCatThinCat

It not about politics. It's about healthy people dying after having the vaccine. I'm pleased my country have suspended using it pending further investigation. Ignoring the deaths and ploughing on regardless is reckless.

Who has died as a direct result from the vaccine?

I think they are wise to investigate what's going on with the blood clotting issue. If people are having blood clots soon after having the vaccine, that's worthy of investigation. We may not like that, but it needs to be done. Just saying 'there's no connection' doesn't make it true.

Who has died as a direct result from the vaccine?

There have now been several deaths due to blood clots shortly after vaccination. Italy has launched a manslaughter investigation following the death of a teacher after vaccination.

YANBU. There was a French MEP on R4 this morning who sits on the EU equivalent of the Health Select Committee. She agreed that the hype over the normal occurrence that's expected in everyday life wasn't justified. It seems very politically motivated and it will cost lives now and in the future.

It needs to be followed up but again I smell politics rather than science. The biggest issue overall in the eu is the French vaccine that the European was pushed to order hasn't materialised - Pfizer biontec was not the primary choice sanofi was. AZ was the number 2 because it's cheap (thanks to the U.K. bankrolling the development)

@FatCatThinCat

Who has died as a direct result from the vaccine?

There have now been several deaths due to blood clots shortly after vaccination. Italy has launched a manslaughter investigation following the death of a teacher after vaccination.

They also said the cause of death is unknown and has no links to the vaccine at this stage.

YANBU - it seems highly likely to be political.

YANBU. I am so angry about it.

Not being funny but even if - IF - it causes blood clots in minute numbers why would that be a reason to stop it? Stick it on the vaccine insert as a possible side effect and be done with it 🤷🏼‍♀️

17 million doses and less than 40 incidents of people having clots. No evidence of the vaccine causing them. But even if there was how many people of that 17m could have been hospitalised or died of Covid? Thousands presumably.

There is no harm in doing scientific investigations, if nothing else to prove that the AZ vaccine is perfectly safe within normal parameters. However, to pause its use while doing so is wasting lives, especially when reassurance has been given by WHO etc......it seems politically motivated.

For what its worth, Pfizer has a similar number of blood clot issues but no-one has mentioned it nor paused the vaccinations. And certain medicines have known blood clot issues - look at the contraceptive Pill - but we still use that....

There was always going to be wariness over a vaccine that was developed quickly. It's better that they suspend, investigate and if there's nothing there then continue with the programme. The anti vaxxers will seize on anything to try and turn people away from the vaccine - if their claims have been investigated and disproven, then they won't have as much leverage.

Norway suspended use of it because they had multiple adverse reaction reports from their own vaccinators. They were getting reports back of blood clots, skin haemorrhages and brain haemorrhages in younger people. But yeah, they're utter fuckwits for pausing its use while they investigate.

For what its worth, Pfizer has a similar number of blood clot issues but no-one has mentioned it nor paused the vaccinations. And certain medicines have known blood clot issues - look at the contraceptive Pill - but we still use that....

Exactly

Even if there is a link why would you stop a vaccine programme that will save thousands of lives and help stop a pandemic because of a few deaths?

It seems a very odd stance to take when thousands are still getting infected every day. Every day's delay will sadly result in more deaths (probably far more than have developed blood clots).

I really really hope it isn't politics at play, but it certainly looks that way.

I happily had my first AZ dose on Saturday. I figured that I was far more likely to develop DVT on a long-haul flight.

www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-reports-that-ireland-has-suspended-the-use-of-the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine/

IMO some of them are thoroughly pissed off that the U.K., which was stupid enough to leave the EU, is not in a worse place re vaccination than they are, and humbly begging for help. According to all that is right and proper in their eyes, the EU should be steaming well ahead, with the poor old U.K. languishing far behind and rueing the day they voted to leave.

In particular Macron, who was one of the first to denigrate the AZ, was IMO severely wounded in his pride that the French Sanofi vaccine, which they’d been relying on, didn’t work - though I believe they’re still working on it.

Might add that I did vote Remain, albeit holding my nose to some extent, since unlike quite a few people I know, I was never a blind worshipper of the EU and all who sail in her.

There is no cause of death yet for that Italian teacher! So a manslaughter investigation is wildly premature and alarmist. Just another EU government diverting attention from their own mismanagement of the pandemic....