To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

Why has the PJizer vaccine not been suspended given they have a higher incidence of blood clots?

FFS. This has been answered so many times on this thread. By NewLevelsOfTiredness for one. Their last post is spot on, btw.

@Itsalonghaul

Individual member states have exercised their sovereignty by pausing uptake while checks are carried out.This is somehow supposed to show us that the EU can't be trusted and that we were right to leave ? Complete logic fail

So why are Italy and Poland among others saying it is political?
Why has the PJizer vaccine not been suspended given they have a higher incidence of blood clots?

Answer that if you will.

Nicola Magrini (head of AIFA, Italy med regulator) said he thought the decision was not medical/public health (he thinks the AZ is safe) but political at a national level.

Nothing to do with the EU. The EU (via the EMA) is continuing to promote use of AZ.

If anything, this episode demonstrates the freedom of member states to set their own path and apply their own rules.

The question about Pfizer has been answered many times on this thread - its because the issues detected after use of AZ are v unusual.

But it seems that Brexiteers are desperate to believe that there is some concerted plot to trash AZ, which they see as the "British" vaccine. Really quite odd.

But it seems that Brexiteers are desperate to believe that there is some concerted plot to trash AZ, which they see as the "British" vaccine. Really quite odd

I agree. I can’t see why. The UK is already cut off and following its own path. I’ve as much interest in how the UK is handling the vaccine as I have in how the US or Africa is handling it. For now, I am only interested in the EU because I live in the EU.

It doesn’t matter what the UK say or think anymore.

The symptoms detected after the AZ vaccine (very few incidences) were highly unusual. Detected firstly in a a 60-year old Danish person who died after receiving the AZ vaccine had a low number of blood platelets and clots in small and large vessels, as well as bleeding. It wasn't just one blood clot in the heart or lungs, it was a high number. This cause of death is very unusual.

There were a few similar cases in Norway, detected in at least 3 people all under the age of 50, who were treated for bleeding, blood clots and low count of blood platelets.

..Sorry have I missed anything? I've just just been watching a piece on the French TV Lunchtime news pointing out how crucially important the apple pie was to the diet of pretty much everybody in Britain...

I don't remember that being the case but since it's on TV, it must be true about the way you folks are living your lives now ... or is it just possible media takes a few liberties with their reporting of foreign issues

@Bluenightowl it's a shame the virus doesn't understand borders. If EU don't get it under control mutations will occur. Which will kill more people. This is a global issue and stupid man made borders mean nothing to COVID. We should work together to stop it, not act like 5 year olds stamping feet because we can't get our own way.

For me I just don't understand the rhetoric the EU (not member states) have been using about AZ. They have trashed it several times now while also demanding more of it. Even though it's made in the EU too. Just move faster. If stupid old UK can manage to vaccinate half its population in just under 4 months then so can anyone.

@Worknoplay

The symptoms detected after the AZ vaccine (very few incidences) were highly unusual. Detected firstly in a a 60-year old Danish person who died after receiving the AZ vaccine had a low number of blood platelets and clots in small and large vessels, as well as bleeding. It wasn't just one blood clot in the heart or lungs, it was a high number. This cause of death is very unusual.

There were a few similar cases in Norway, detected in at least 3 people all under the age of 50, who were treated for bleeding, blood clots and low count of blood platelets.

I think Denmark has re-approved for use today? Is that right

Yes, Denmark are now using it again.

That’s good. Others will likely follow and hopefully not too much damage overall from pause or comms.

I think they did the right thing to pause it as the cases were related to one batch, I'd hope that every country has a mechanism to monitor that and make sure everything is ok. It's a perfectly rational decision to make.

mumsneedwine
I see you would like to holiday in the EU. Well hang on a few extra months and you can come and spend all your hard earned pounds here. We’re happy enough to holiday at home this year.

can I have a link so I can share regarding Denmark please? thanks!

@Bluenightowl

But it seems that Brexiteers are desperate to believe that there is some concerted plot to trash AZ, which they see as the "British" vaccine. Really quite odd

I agree. I can’t see why. The UK is already cut off and following its own path. I’ve as much interest in how the UK is handling the vaccine as I have in how the US or Africa is handling it. For now, I am only interested in the EU because I live in the EU.

It doesn’t matter what the UK say or think anymore.

It all remind me of the Eurovision song contest. British people seem to think that the reason the UK often does badly is because "the Europeans" don't like them and the voting is all,political.....

@EasterIssland

can I have a link so I can share regarding Denmark please? thanks!

Yes please from me as well, I can't seem to find anything.

We do get a lot of diatribe on here about how crap we are - tbf

Fortunately however the vaccine programme has been very good here.

Frogartist bringing a song competition into a debate has just undermined anything useful you might have had to say.

[quote mumsneedwine]@Bluenightowl it's a shame the virus doesn't understand borders. If EU don't get it under control mutations will occur. Which will kill more people. This is a global issue and stupid man made borders mean nothing to COVID. We should work together to stop it, not act like 5 year olds stamping feet because we can't get our own way.

For me I just don't understand the rhetoric the EU (not member states) have been using about AZ. They have trashed it several times now while also demanding more of it. Even though it's made in the EU too. Just move faster. If stupid old UK can manage to vaccinate half its population in just under 4 months then so can anyone. [/quote]
Not really - the early UK investment in the AZ vaccine, and the two plants there, are a huge bonus to your vaccination plan that we can't match even if all 27 EU member state's health authorities were perfect.

It's too late for us to get that bit right now, sadly. And on the occasion I say 'us' as an EU citizen, because procurement IS an EU wide project.

But absolutely a number of individual EU countries could, and must, do better with what is available to them.

• 27 different countries in the EU plus the non EU countries who have also paused based on their own data.
• All with different political set ups, different levels of infection and sovereignty about what they want to do.
• None of whom are making decisions about their citizens' health driven by anti-British sentiment
• the EU has no control over individual healthcare systems, it coordinated the procurement of the vaccines.
• AZ is a pharmaceutical company, not an outreach of the British government or representing the British people. Criticizing how the company has conducted its trials, how it honors is contracts or pausing vaccinations investigate based on some red flag has no connection with criticizing the British people .

Europeans are not obsessed with the UK in the way the UK seems to be obsessed with us.

Pretty clear that there are people in the UK determined to stir up as much anti-European sentiment as possible. You can see it here and on other social media. This approach of bombarding threads with lies and half truths is orchestrated. And even when lies are refuted by posters, another poster is along in a second to ignore and continue pedalling their misinformation . I don't know where itsalonghaul is getting its "insight" about France but it's bollocks. I'd imagine it is the same for a lot of rubbish being spouted about Germany and Italy and the various other countries being discussed on here.

As other posters have pointed out, those obsessing about Europe should try paying a bit more attention to what your own government is up to and less worrying about ours.

While looking for a link about Denmark restarting the vaccine (which I still cam't find), I found this letter that DMA sent out to people who have had AZ in the last 14 - there's some very useful advice in it for anyone who has had the AZ vaccine and is worried.

laegemiddelstyrelsen.dk/en/news/2021/danish-medicines-agency-sends-out-updated-letter-to-people-who-have-received-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-within-the-last-14-days/

Usually we get spokespeople from France, Germany or JCVI saying similar things. A pause is obviously news as we are using the same vaccine.

@EasterIssland www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3125542/coronavirus-woman-who-died-blood-clot-after-astrazeneca-vaccine

[quote Worknoplay]@EasterIssland www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3125542/coronavirus-woman-who-died-blood-clot-after-astrazeneca-vaccine[/quote]
thanks! However, it doesn't say what some PP are posting about Denmark restarting their vaccination again (apologies I should have specified I meant that bit)

Ms von der Leyen has threatened to block vaccine exports to the UK and other countries with markedly higher rollouts of coronary jabs...

But it's not political ...🤔

@mumsneedwine

Yes, Denmark are now using it again.

@mumsneedwine do you have a link please? I looked on the DMA site and there is nothing about this on its news section.

laegemiddelstyrelsen.dk/en/news/