To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

@Waxonwaxoff0

So why aren't we seeing any of this in the UK? We've done way more jabs than the EU and there aren't multiple people dropping dead after.

No the UK has done around 40 million vacinations, the EU is getting close to 200 million.

The UK has more jabs per 100 people but the EU has vaccinated many many more people and therefore a far larger test group.

Marcus Leroux @marcusleroux
If the AZ vaccine is causing these rare blood clots (CSVT) that the German authorities are concerned about, you would expect dozens of cases in the UK data. But there are three.

Health professionals, is it possible other countries have just been better at diagnosing CSVT?

And a related question. If a link between the AZ vaccine and CSVT is shown, how bad would it need to be for approval to be rescinded?

A link between the contraceptive pill and CSVT looks well-established.

The major difference between the UK and the EU is politics and public trust. The UK has much more underlying trust in vaccines and there isn't a political party which is persuing any kind of anti-vax line. Unfortunately this is not true in the EU. There is a much higher prevalence of anti-vax sentiment.

In some respects being over cautious in order to dispell any fears is prudent. The problem is the way that this has been reported throughout the UK and EU is totally counter productive to this, and quite frankly nothing short of irresponsible. Media has gone for the sensationalist line rather than accurate and considered reporting which WILL scare people.

DH has already seen people he knos saying they won't get their second dose now and even he - who is very pro-vaccine - has admitted to feeling anxious about getting vaccinated now. (He will He's not daft. His comment was more if thats how he was feeling plenty of others will be swayed not to have it at all).

The question above about 'how many cases, is too many cases?' is the real one to follow. Not whether the vaccine causes more blood clots (and there is evidence which may suggest that in fact the converse maybe true anyway.

It is worth remembering that WHO say AZ is safe and it should be continued to be used and the European Medicine Agency are saying it is safe and it should be continued to be used. It is NOT just the UK agencies and government.

The action is coming from individual governments (ie political) rather than regulators and health advisory bodies (ie science led). And anyone with any kind of doubt creeping in should keep an eye on this dynamic over and above what is said on the news and in the media - who is saying and doing what and why.

I am fully expecting the PM to very publically have his vaccine in the next fortnight or so, and if he does, I will be amazed if it is anything but AZ.

A male friend of ours (late 50's) who is fit and healthy had a DVT in his leg last June. He'd had Covid in April although only fairly mildly. The blood clot was put down to Covid and insufficient hydration. He obviously hadn't been vaccinated at the time.
I had my AZ vaccine yesterday. The possibility of a blood clot is far higher from Covid as is the possibility of being involved in a car accident in the journey to the vaccine centre.

I think those countries suspending AZ should think of the number of people who may die of Covid if they don’t get a vaccine, against the faint possibility of blood clots. There’s far more chance of catching Covid than getting a blood clot. I’ve had my first AZ jab and no problems so far. I’m glad I got it and just hope nothing stops me from getting second jab.

@Lindy2

I heard the EU are meeting on Thursday to discuss it. THURSDAY! Nearly a weeks wait before they even get their beaurocratic arises in gear enough to have a talk about it.

Even after they talk about it they'll need to go through their disagreeing about the decision, arguing a bit, changing their mind, finally making a decision and arranging another meeting in another week's time to talk about it a bit more, processes.

If the UK Government was bumbling along like that there would be outrage. Thank God we are in a position to just get on with saving lives.

The EMA are meeting on Thursday Lindy, not the EU. The EMA who haven't suspended the license and who have recommended it keep being used.

Different countries have made their own decisions and actually gone against the EMA. It's almost like, I don't know, they have sovereignty or something.

@Lumene

If no one got blood clots after having the vaccine, the vaccine would be a cure for blood clots.

Honestly, it's ridiculous, isn't it? The logic is so plain as to think that this level of muppetry must be fueled by malice rather than ignorance. Even a child could see that if the prevalence of illness is comparative in the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups then the vaccine is not playing a role.

What else would we like the AstraZeneca jab to cure?

@FatCatThinCat

The drama really seems to be British media stirring up offense and using sweeping anti-EU generalisations.

100% and not just the media. It's the same old anti EU posters popping up here as on every other anti EU thread.

Tbf, I think the EU are being daft.

I'm not anti-EU.

@IkkeMig

Denmark has a lot of trust in its health authority and is pro-vaccine as a whole.

Suspending use of the AZ vaccine pending further investigation is welcomed. There is no drama about the situation and vaccinations are still being rolled out, just a different brand.

The drama really seems to be British media stirring up offense and using sweeping anti-EU generalisations.

All of this. I'm glad they're investigating.

It's not anti-eu to have to scoop your jaw off the floor with this display of madness.

It's not anti-eu to have to scoop your jaw off the floor with this display of madness.

It is when you aren't qualified to judge if it's "madness".

It isn't

One of the newspaper today was quoting a french doctor yesterday saying that even one day delay in vaccinating the over 50s would cost far more in lives than potential blood clots.

@FullofCurryandparatha

It's not anti-eu to have to scoop your jaw off the floor with this display of madness.

It is when you aren't qualified to judge if it's "madness".

It isn't

It is if a delay will cost more lives than it saves. Which is difficult to argue again on the basis of the numbers presented.

On the positive side hopefully it means there will be more vaccines available for developing countries if Europe decides to pass.

They are completely mad. Flying causes blood clots. Let's ban flying especially to the EU

I think they should just have an in investigation into it to put people’s minds at rest.
The investigation does need to be totally independent of any governments/vaccine manufacturers etc for a lot of people to listen.

The EMA clearly state, (their bold), that:

EMA currently remains of the view that the benefits of the AstraZeneca vaccine in preventing COVID-19, with its associated risk of hospitalisation and death, outweigh the risks of side effects.

So you're anti-Spain, Francophobic, anti-Dane, anti-Norway or whatever the words might be, but you agree with the EU.

@Lumene

If no one got blood clots after having the vaccine, the vaccine would be a cure for blood clots.

Excellent point!

I want my vaccination because I'm concerned about blood clots from covid. And Yes flying concerns me too and I take precautions.

Noticed a lot of people on various Facebook groups I am on today asking if anywhere is offering the Pfizer jab instead of Oxford. So the news is working on people and I feel now that especially the younger population will be reluctant to have the AZ vaccine.

Hopefully news will be good later and vaccines can continue.

I mean, if you're thick enough that you don't realise that the individual countries made the decisions individually, instead blaming the imaginary monolithic EU, should you even be giving your opinion?

It's political, They are saying that each EU country is following the other, & that France (for example) need to show they are as cautious as the others.
Its a shit show, I know I live in in the EU

It looks like that at the moment, although I guess we have to see what comes out of the further investigations.

We mustn’t forget that there are elections happening in many countries this year.

So a knee jerk reaction in one country might bring on a similar in another, all in the interests of electioneering.

Even when, not if, the AZ is declared safe the damage is done.

@Viviennemary

They are completely mad. Flying causes blood clots. Let's ban flying especially to the EU

Don't worry. If Spain, Greece, France, Italy etc aren't getting along with their vaccine programmes over the next couple of months, they're less likely to get COVID under control, and there's not going to be a lot of flying going on over the summer, even if UK residents are vaccinated and allowed to travel.

I wonder what the usual rate of blood clots in a population of however many million people, many of whom are elderly and/or have existing health conditions is for the period in question?

Correlation does not equal causation.

Its a shit show, I know I live in in the EU

Wow, you live in the EU? I guess you must know everything about it then.