To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

Really, this vaccine farrago has just accelerated what would have happened post Brexit; the UK is absolutely uninterested in the EU and is actively looking to cease reliance on trade with it.

AZ is a really good example of the politics the EU were prepared to play - they lost. But the political fall out is clear - a scramble on the part of the British to get new chains and arrangements with countries directly, and cut the EU out.

Haven’t read the full thread yet but I will. You are not being unreasonable. It really isn’t on that AZ is being held to a completely different standard than the other vaccinations. I don’t see how people can
Say this isn’t political. It obviously is

Language matters. Some people in UK now worried about the vaccine because leader of EU has said it's unsafe. Even though EU countries now reusing it again. So was all over nothing. But mud sticks. So well done for causing unnecessary worry after a thoroughly shit year.
No one in UK understood why what's her name was planning on banning exports to UK because AZ was not supplying them. What the hell did a multinational company contract have to do with the UK ?? Was laughable.
At least Poland and Italy admit that politics is at play here. Which is sick. It's a vaccine that works. Wherever it comes from just shove it arms faster.

@Itsalonghaul you can't ask for truth when your post is rabid lunacy.

"The EU have banned the vaccine!"

There are actual bad things the EU has done. Why don't you find one of those instead of doing some sort of Quixotic charge? You're embarrassing yourself.

@LimitIsUp

Well to be fair, the broadsheets are pretty good
Some are... I only rate The Times and the FT. The Telegraph has been batshit for years now.

And why don't the EU have enough vaccine? Did they not know how many people lived there when ordering ? If we can do 400,000+ a day why can't everyone ? We are using volunteers, retired nhs staff, army, medical students, anyone who can help. Trained them as vaccinators, admin, ushers. Why isn't every country doing the same ? Get on with it.

Sadly the EU are the ONLY ones that have made this political downinthehole for once the UK have throughout this whole fiasco acted with measured, considered and careful responses. The UK is not perfect, but on this they have really pulled it out of the bag, and behaved with dignity and respect, the same certainly can not be said for Ursula and her grey suits.

I am sorry but the EU are at fault, and MN is a hugely remain supporting site and always has been. We fought long and hard to remain in the EU, but honestly this is just too much. The eyes are now wide open so to speak.

I only care about the people that will die because of this stupidity. Anyone that has lost someone to covid will understand the emotion and anger. The suffering and lonely death that is the end result of no vaccine I would not wish on anyone, and I am incandescent that any government anywhere can inflict this on their own people for such pathetic reasons.

the UK is absolutely uninterested in the EU

Of course.

That's why the OP started this thread, and why a handful of posters have been plopping UKIP-worthy political rants, isn't it?

Isn't it?

Well, it is a matter for the EU to continue with this lunacy. I am getting the vaccine and our lives back in the process, we won't die from coivd now, but I do feel desperately sorry for all of the innocent and trusting people of Europe that will now suffer and die because of incompetence and spite.

Genuinely I feel very sorry for them. As for the posts on here defending the indefensible. You have blood on your hands by continuing the disinformation campaign.

the UK is absolutely uninterested in the EU

Of course.

That's why the OP started this thread, and why a handful of posters have been plopping UKIP-worthy political rants, isn't it?

Isn't it?

I’m glad you said it. This thread is eye opening. All the remainers who are now delighted they left the EU.... oh course you are. Hmmm

(It isn't 100% correct that having the vaccine means you will not die from covid now - just to be clear. I don't think any of the vaccines even after 2 does and after the 21 days to take effect promise that but I agree it is a very very high level of protection).

@Bluenightowl

the UK is absolutely uninterested in the EU

Of course.

That's why the OP started this thread, and why a handful of posters have been plopping UKIP-worthy political rants, isn't it?

Isn't it?

I’m glad you said it. This thread is eye opening. All the remainers who are now delighted they left the EU.... oh course you are. Hmmm

Are you in the U.K.? Ie did you vote?

I voted remain and have had some views challenged lately, I don’t mind admitting it, not sure if fully as there’s more to it than vaccines. But I am very relieved we have had experts lead us through the vaccine situation with very good decisions.

@MythicalBiologicalFennel

the UK is absolutely uninterested in the EU

Of course.

That's why the OP started this thread, and why a handful of posters have been plopping UKIP-worthy political rants, isn't it?

Isn't it?

That may be so - but I would say this mentality between UKIP and pro EU people still exists.

However, I think it’s worth pointing out that the UK is now moving very fast to cut out EU influence altogether, legal, political and financial. The vaccine debacle gives a very good excuse to do that swiftly, and also a good practical example as to why Britain is more business friendly.

I’m not a UKIPPER, but I think a lot of people thought we would be asking the EU to rejoin or be on similar terms in a few years. I actually think the vaccine issue is being repurposed to say “Britain is better”. Politics on both sides with big audiences.

I think many thought Britain would reach a compact with the EU. I think it’s going to get much worse!

@mumsneedwine coordinating an entire bloc of countries brings with it its own problems including disagreements over price and quantity, this led to delays in getting agreements signed. Then there were production issues with the agreed amounts not being delivered at agreed times, the EU is having a slow Q1 and hoping for a ramped up Q2. The capacity to administer vaccines is there. Just not the vaccines themselves.

However for Ireland anyway it is very positive with circa 450k vaccinated with almost 160k of those also having had their 2nd dose and a further 1.1 million due to be vaccinated with the latest Pfizer batch incoming aside from the numbers who will also be vaccinated with the smaller supply of AZ and Moderna. So hopefully the teething problems are now coming to an end and numbers will ramp up.

Bearing in mind our total population is

The Brexity spin on this is quite bizarre!
The EU (via the EMA) has approved the vaccine.

Individual member states have exercised their sovereignty by pausing uptake while checks are carried out

This is somehow supposed to show us that the EU can't be trusted and that we were right to leave ? Complete logic fail.

@Itsalonghaul

Well, it is a matter for the EU to continue with this lunacy. I am getting the vaccine and our lives back in the process, we won't die from coivd now, but I do feel desperately sorry for all of the innocent and trusting people of Europe that will now suffer and die because of incompetence and spite.

Genuinely I feel very sorry for them. As for the posts on here defending the indefensible. You have blood on your hands by continuing the disinformation campaign.

Drop this ignorant and patronzing bullshit about us being unaware of what our own governments are doing. The idea that you have some greater enlightenment, that you know through your media better than we do what is happening in our country is genuinely, breathtakingly arrogant.

You post again and again about things related to a few countries in the bloc and extrapolate them to the whole, your lines of what the EU is doing and what individual sovereign nations are doing are consistently blurred, and you've failed to answer questions asked in response to some of the falsehoods you've posted.

You've literally accused smaller EU states of being peons serving two countries, and your posts are getting more rabid and bilious as the thread progresses.

I'm glad you're getting the vaccine, I'm pleased for everyone who does.

Pharmacovigilance (PV or PhV), also known as drug safety, is the pharmacological science relating to the collection, detection, assessment, monitoring, and prevention of adverse effects with pharmaceutical products.

It exists. Its there for a reason.

@bumblebeessarecool

Pharmacovigilance (PV or PhV), also known as drug safety, is the pharmacological science relating to the collection, detection, assessment, monitoring, and prevention of adverse effects with pharmaceutical products.

It exists. Its there for a reason.

It does, but are you saying something about who has paused over who has not?

MRHA, EMA and the WHO advised to keep going and not pause. Is your comment about how they should have advised differently

Individual member states have exercised their sovereignty by pausing uptake while checks are carried out.This is somehow supposed to show us that the EU can't be trusted and that we were right to leave ? Complete logic fail

So why are Italy and Poland among others saying it is political?
Why has the PJizer vaccine not been suspended given they have a higher incidence of blood clots?

Answer that if you will.

I live in the EU, and the country where I live has suspended the use of the AZ vaccine. I think that it is very highly likely that investigations will show that the deaths of the unfortunate people in Norway are not in anyway linked to the use of the vaccine. However individual member states have the right to investigate and imho they should investigate to see if the deaths are linked.

My comment was meant to indicate that there is a process that monitors the adverse effects of all medicines. Vaccines and other drugs are not approved for use without continuous monitoring of any and all potential adverse effects. I for one am glad that this process exists.

@Downinahole that's v good news about Ireland. So almost 10% of population done. Let's hope everyone gets there soon and the petty squabbling and silly headlines stop. The quicker more people have the vaccine the better. I don't care who you are or where you're from get the vaccine. Listen to Dolly !

The point is IF the EU had suspended BOTH vaccines, because they both show some blood clots (related or not to the vaccine) then that would seem cautious and reasonable, but to only suspend one of them, notably the one that have had been arguing with for the past three months - not to mention the other lies that were told about efficacy then it DOES look very very politically motivated.

No one can answer why Pjizer has not been suspended as well??

This is the crux of the problem.

It is nothing to do with brexit!

*has nothing

@bumblebeessarecool

I live in the EU, and the country where I live has suspended the use of the AZ vaccine. I think that it is very highly likely that investigations will show that the deaths of the unfortunate people in Norway are not in anyway linked to the use of the vaccine. However individual member states have the right to investigate and imho they should investigate to see if the deaths are linked.

My comment was meant to indicate that there is a process that monitors the adverse effects of all medicines. Vaccines and other drugs are not approved for use without continuous monitoring of any and all potential adverse effects. I for one am glad that this process exists.

Me too. I also listened to JCVI and agreed with his views on not pausing. Although we are relying on AZ here more than elsewhere in some cases which might impact decisions.

Itsalonghaul

It has been answered. Read through the thread.

And why do you care? You are in the UK. Carry on doing what you are doing.