To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

@RedToothBrush
The action is coming from individual governments (ie political) rather than regulators and health advisory bodies (ie science led). And anyone with any kind of doubt creeping in should keep an eye on this dynamic over and above what is said on the news and in the media - who is saying and doing what and why.

Bollocks. The decision in Denmark was 100% taken by the health authorities, NOT the government. The government don't control it. Please stop spreading this misinformation, and if you don't know the truth don't post your own speculation as if it is the truth.

If you have suspicions about individual countries then be specific.

One of the confounding factors is that we are now vaccinating a population, some of whom will have had mild or symptomless Covid prior to vaccination, some of whom may then get unusual clotting due to that, and not to the vaccination itself. We would expect clotting issues to have risen a lot during covid times, even without a vaccine. It will be difficult to tell if it was the vaccine, or the person had prior Covid, given that Covid antibodies do not always show up later on. This is a tricky one for epidemiologists and clinicians to prove that it wasn't the vaccine, apart from comparing to the general population, but remember estimations of that will be from past years and not from what is happening now with 15% having already had covid.

It was also inevitable there would be a 'vaccine scare' once you start vaccinating tens of millions of people, because some of those will have strokes, clots, heart attacks, cancer or just suddenly die anyway in the course of the following few months, it's hard for us not to make causal associations about this even when that's not the case.

[quote NewLevelsOfTiredness]@RedToothBrush
The action is coming from individual governments (ie political) rather than regulators and health advisory bodies (ie science led). And anyone with any kind of doubt creeping in should keep an eye on this dynamic over and above what is said on the news and in the media - who is saying and doing what and why.

Bollocks. The decision in Denmark was 100% taken by the health authorities, NOT the government. The government don't control it. Please stop spreading this misinformation, and if you don't know the truth don't post your own speculation as if it is the truth.

If you have suspicions about individual countries then be specific.[/quote]
Louder for the people in the back! 👏

I'm just glad we vaccinated half the adult population once before the 'scare' slows down vaccination rates.

@getsomehelp

It's political, They are saying that each EU country is following the other, & that France (for example) need to show they are as cautious as the others. Its a shit show, I know I live in in the EU

How do you explain the NON-EU countries suspending the AZ vac then?

@justanotherneighinparadise do you ever fly? Have you ever taken the contraceptive pill?
Both of those things are known to increase your risk of blood clots.

The rate of blood clots in people who have received the AZ is about the same as people who have had Pfizer. And lower than the 'normal' rate of blood clots.

Another thing that massively increases risk of blood clots? Catching covid.

Yep, we have decided to suspend using a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic just to piss off the UK.
What I don't understand is why they haven't looked at pfizer as well though ?

YANBU utter fuckwits.
Used to divert attention away from how badly the EU have performed on runout.

@SignsofSpring

I'm just glad we vaccinated half the adult population once before the 'scare' slows down vaccination rates.

Yes, and also all those people who are already jabbed act as a vote of confidence for the vaccine. It's much harder to make a bogeyman out of a vaccine when you already know many, many people among friends and family who have been immunised without event. So I'm hopeful that will mitigate this carry on.

@annonnymous

I couldn't agree more, but I can't find it in me to care, because it's THEM who are going to be affected by it, not us here in the UK.

It seems to me (although this is JMO,) that it's just another little dig at us, because they're still wounded and angry and pissed off that we left the E.U.

Especially as the other vaccines from other countries have resulted in a small amount of people developing blood clots too. AND the fact that it's less than 40 people out of 17 million! I bet those 40-ish people would have still developed a blood clot withOUT having the bloody vaccine.

Spectacular scaremongering at its finest!

This.

This is not about the UK.

What I don't understand is why they haven't looked at pfizer as well though ?

I think Pfizer's secret ingredient must be teflon.

[quote poshme]@justanotherneighinparadise do you ever fly? Have you ever taken the contraceptive pill?
Both of those things are known to increase your risk of blood clots.

The rate of blood clots in people who have received the AZ is about the same as people who have had Pfizer. And lower than the 'normal' rate of blood clots.

Another thing that massively increases risk of blood clots? Catching covid.[/quote]
I don’t fly and don’t take the contraceptive pill however the reason for my reticence is not really the potential clotting issue. It’s more that I’m ridiculously healthy and I don’t think I need a vaccine full stop. So I think I’m going to pass when it’s offered the first time but perhaps take it up at a later date.

I’d rather pay privately to have the best vaccine that proves to be available later than take what’s offered now if that makes sense. My reaction would be COMPLETELY different if I were in any way vulnerable. DP had his as he is group 6 and I was extremely happy. He gets ill very easily and when he does he always gets whatever virus it is badly. I on the other hand catch the same virus and hardly even notice 🤷‍♀️

FWIW I’d already decided not to have AZ and to wait for Pfizer. Nothing to do with clots, everything to do with the appalling side effects that I believe are being significantly downplayed.

Hahahaha! This is hilarious. “Waiting for Pfizer”. Good luck with that!

The entitlement of people that they think they get a choice is hilarious

Yanbu. Its about politics..the eu hate the UK now due to brexit. Just hope it doesn't effect our vaccine roll out.

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

Yep, we have decided to suspend using a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic just to piss off the UK. What I don't understand is why they haven't looked at pfizer as well though ?

Because the extend of the damage to the bodies of the people who died in Norway and Denmark was "highly unusual," and happened close together. They had (almost certainly coincidentally) recently had the AZ vaccine.

That's why.

And I'd still happily take it, but I respect that they feel the need to investigate.

@CrunchyCarrot

I think they are wise to investigate what's going on with the blood clotting issue. If people are having blood clots soon after having the vaccine, that's worthy of investigation. We may not like that, but it needs to be done. Just saying 'there's no connection' doesn't make it true.

Exactly. I've had the AZ vaccine, I'll have my second dose but I still think it is sensible to investigate if there is an issue.

To be honest I take everything our govt says with a pinch of salt, it was OK for 250,000 to meet up at Cheltenham, don't wear masks/wear masks, Boris telling us it is fine to shake hands with people, EatOut to HelpOut (I assume that was helping out the virus?) the govt's protective ring round care homes, we had enough PPE, Boris still getting too close to elbow bump people, we will definitely have Christmas, back to normal for Easter.

Cynical? Moi?

I agree with the OP

It’s mental

@FatCatThinCat

It not about politics. It's about healthy people dying after having the vaccine. I'm pleased my country have suspended using it pending further investigation. Ignoring the deaths and ploughing on regardless is reckless.

I listened to a radio 4 fact bust on this given the vulnerable and old were vaccinated first some of those deaths would have happened anyway but obviously because of the close proximity to having the vaccine it would be easy to blame the vaccine.

They went through the exact statistics e.g at 90 you have an x chance of dying within 6 months. Interesting listen.

@londonrach whats Indonesia's beef with the uk? What about Thailand? The democratic republican of Congo?

It's political, They are saying that each EU country is following the other, & that France (for example) need to show they are as cautious as the others.
Its a shit show, I know I live in in the EU

French national politicians needed to show there own, generally vaccine sceptical population, they were going to consider the situation before continuing using AZ product (which I'm fairly convinced they will)

I know, I live in France.

yabVu
It's a 1-2 day pause at most.
The precautionary principle has driven many COVID control decisions so far, some people trumpeting very loudly that PP is the best way to figure out what to do.
Pah.