29 deaths in Norway linked to vaccine?

[Lookingforwardto2021]

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149

Updated by Norway’s health agency to 29. What is going on? Why haven’t we heard about this in UK?

Very frail elderly people nearing end-of-life are not able to tolerate the Pfizer vaccine's side effects of fever, nausea etc apparently.

So the vaccine might cause their death to be earlier than it would otherwise have been, and there is no way of knowing. Covid would almost certainly cause their death to be earlier. I would be prepared for my elderly parent to take the risk with the vaccine and so would they.

@starfro

15,000 people die a week in January in an average year in the UK. Most of those will be elderly. So we're going to see thousands die having recently had a vaccine. This doesn't mean it's the vaccine causing it.

In Norway 40,000 people a year die. So nearly 1000 a week would be normal at the moment.Again, most of these will be elderly and a lot will have just been vaccinated.

29 is completely unremarkable.

7,830 people have died with Covid in the UK this week. That's without being vaccinated. Most of these people are elderly and died with underlying conditions that in a normal year would be the cause of death on their death cert and not the respiratory disease that took them away in the end.

I'm amazed how all of a sudden, people are being blasé about old people dying soon after the vaccine.

Maybe it's not that the vaccines contains anything dangerous, but possibly the side-effects that are mild to a healthy individual are not so mild to an elderly person. If that is the case, it should be discussed and highlighted in the media.
Old people have always died. We seem to have lost sight of that in these odd Covid times.

If it reassures anyone my Mum had the Pfizer vaccine and she’s fine. She is 85, has an auto immune disease and also something wrong with her heart. Frankly she could die at anytime. She is mentally very alert and physically active but would rather take the chance and live without catching Covid.

Edit
Mum and her friends were boostered 10 days ago.
How long do side effects take to kick in?

@TeenPlusTwenties

Oh for heavens sake.

With all medicines there is a reporting system to see if side effects occur.
So if someone dies within X days of a vaccine, especially a new one, it will be collated.
Of course some people will die within a week or 14 days after the vaccine, just in the normal course of events, especially if the people being given the vaccine are currently mainly 70+.

It doesn't mean the vaccine has necessarily caused the deaths. But they have to study / do analysis to see whether there is any causation. It would be remiss if there wasn't any follow up.

The amount of scaremongering on here is ridiculous.

Exactly.

@russiancurry

Very frail elderly people nearing end-of-life are not able to tolerate the Pfizer vaccine's side effects of fever, nausea etc apparently.

So the vaccine might cause their death to be earlier than it would otherwise have been, and there is no way of knowing. Covid would almost certainly cause their death to be earlier. I would be prepared for my elderly parent to take the risk with the vaccine and so would they.

Not everyone has side effects,

I personally know people who are in their 90s who had the vaccine and had not a single side effect other than a sore arm.

Well we have vaccinated 3.5 million in the U.K. and the majority of those are (I would assume) 80+, no deaths as far as I’m aware.

This thread has totally freaked me out. My mum is 67 but immunosupressed and not well at all at the moment with chronic lung problem. Now Im wondering what the vaccine is going to do to her. Wish I hadn't seen this.

January/February are often the coldest months of the year. One effect of the cold is to thicken the blood making it clot more readily leading to an increase in strokes and heart attacks in people with high blood pressure. Many elderly people think that they must go out and get exercise to stay fit. My late df did and had 2 massive strokes in the January and died 3 weeks later. His GP hadn't bothered treating his high blood pressure. But, had it been this year, as he had chronic bronchitis he might well have been vaccinated - he'd have walked a mile and a half to the health centre as the buses/trains weren't reliable - would've had the vaccine and quite probably died from a stroke. He was only 79 and fit enough to walk 3 miles 3 times a day.

I'm nearly 65 and have a compromised immune system and have been ill with hypothermia due to a thyroid problem and I'll be offered the "flu vaccine after my birthday in March which seems a bit pointless as it's after the 'flu season.

I've been told I'm high risk for Covid, but despite an auto-immune disorder I'm way down the list for a vaccine.

The immune system gradually weakens with age, and many people have untreated underactive thyroid problems - the British Thyroid Association said that at least 25% of people who have their blood tested to create the 'normal' range have a problem, it's just not been diagnosed and treated.

So, some dying could have an autoimmune disorder and not be aware of it, some could be like my late DF and have walked to the health centre in the cold causing other problems. As previous posters have said it can be down to spurious correlation.

Testing isn't an exact science, whether for vaccines or computer systems. You do the best you can in line with current best practice. 100% testing isn't practical before launching a vaccine. It's just unknown.

There's a huge difference between being elderly and being 'end of life'. The latter is medically specific. Let's not get carried away here.

Yes, it's important that these deaths are investigated, but from what I've read so far, those that died were very frail and at 'end of life'. So it will need careful teasing out to discover whether it was their medical condition or the extra stress of the vaccine that killed them.

@boon

This thread has totally freaked me out. My mum is 67 but immunosupressed and not well at all at the moment with chronic lung problem. Now Im wondering what the vaccine is going to do to her. Wish I hadn't seen this.

Don't be. As the poster before you pointed out, at least 3.5million people have been vaccinated in the UK with no deaths.

And of course, your mum might well have the Oxford vaccine or one of the others as they're wheeled out.

@hollyangel I completely agree. Funny how it's been flipped around all of a sudden.

Last time I checked it equated to 0.09% of people who had been vaccinated. So about 1/10th of 1 percent

These people could have been very frail lots of unknowns for a very very low %

@Dodie66

In the article it says this. All deaths are thus linked to this vaccine,” the Norwegian Medicines Agency said in a written response to Bloomberg on Saturday.

You’ve taken that quote hugely out of context. The previous sentence says thatNoway has only administered the Pfizer vaccine.

It’s not a comment that there is a link, but that if there isn’t one they can only apply it to the Pfizer vaccine.

@lockeddownandcrazy

29 people out of how many? There is risk to anything, those people would probably have died if they got covid too. Will be still pressing elderly parents to get theirs next week.

This. Every medical intervention carries a risk. Death is an absolute certainty for everyone, but a medical intervention MAY be beneficial to postpone the inevitable!

Obviously if 29/29 vaccinated died then the intervention is pointless (and lethal). If it's 29/20,000 I'd say that's a perfectly acceptable result statistically.

@boon

This thread has totally freaked me out. My mum is 67 but immunosupressed and not well at all at the moment with chronic lung problem. Now Im wondering what the vaccine is going to do to her. Wish I hadn't seen this.

Sorry to hear that she's not well. The thing is weighing up the risk - the vaccine or the virus.

If it helps, my Mum has 22 years on your Mum, has two severe underlying conditions and had the vaccine late last month and is so far fine.

@hollyangel

Why is it ok to brush off these deaths soon after taking the vaccine as deaths that don't matter as they probably would have happened anyway to the old and infirm?

But then the prevailing narrative since March has been that Covid deaths in the very elderly(which are the vast majority as the median age of death is people in their 80s with underlying conditions) are totally unacceptable and we must lockdown the whole country in order to prevent the deaths of these people would most likely have died that year anyway?

Doesn't make any sense to me.

This

@Marmunia1975

I have worked in the media for 30 years and let's just say these stories would not be welcome. There is censorship. I wouldn't get the vaccine if I was paid to.

We've only got your word for that. Stop scaremongering.

Excellent radio 4 series 'How to Vaccinate the World' covers exactly this issue - really worth listening to. Explains that once you reach 80 you have a 10% chance of dying within the next 12 months, and the percentage increases with age. Scientists were concerned that any deaths in the elderly would be blamed on the vaccine when in fact, it would be usual for a certain % to die in any given year anyway. Health services across the world will be monitoring the vaccine rollout incredibly closely and any issues will be flagged up and investigated thoroughly.

And this was definitely reported in British press over last couple of days - don't think anything is being hidden. The mail report especially was scaremongering rubbish.

My grandparents 80+ had the Pfizer and they are fine. We’ve vaccinated millions and had no deaths.

[quote NoOneOwnsTheRainbow]@hollyangel I completely agree. Funny how it's been flipped around all of a sudden.[/quote]
it’s not flipping it around. There’s a big difference between saying further analysis I might show this is actually a decrease in the number of expected deaths and might not be linked to a vaccine but needs further research and deciding that 100,000 excess deaths would have have happened anyway and we should go on increasing that and kill off more people.

To add to my post further up....it is 29 out of 33,000, or at least it was yesterday when I read the news item. So 0.09% or 1 in 1137 people. Even with that low number we do not have all the facts, just that they died within x number of days

No, 29 people have NOT died from the vaccine in Norway.
2 people have died after the time of vaccination. It is being investigated as a matter of course to determine if the vaccine had anything to do with the deaths.
Correlation is not the same as causation.
Ffs, 29 people and you can only read about it on Parler or where the fuck. Why would that EVER make you think: ooh, it must be true.
Give your head a wobble!

To qualify my comment: probably more than 2 will have died, but there were only 2 that were even remotely slightly «worrisome» and in need of any kind of investigation.
These kinds of investigation are important and healthy to have. Certainly not a cause for avoiding the vaccine.