29 deaths in Norway linked to vaccine?

[Lookingforwardto2021]

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149

Updated by Norway’s health agency to 29. What is going on? Why haven’t we heard about this in UK?

@Balhammom

So far as I’m aware, all of the reporting in Norway is about a tentative correlation between the immunization and morbidity.

To state the obvious, correlation does not mean causation. Here, the recipients are an elderly and/or clinically vulnerable demographic, so while the correlation will no doubt be studied, it would just reflect how these individuals were at a higher risk of morbidity in any event.

This

It was reported in the papers a forty something female in Portugal died the next day after having it but this is rare. It made my DM reluctant but she still had it and was fine.

@ItStartedWithAKiss241

Surely this is no different to any treatment with give very elderly vulnerable people? We always weigh up whether the effects of the treatment is worth it to the person? You don’t operate on a 96 y.o lady if she falls and breaks her hip if you don’t think she will be able to tolerate the anaesthetic, operation and recovery?

Very true my Nan passed as to remove a stone in her bladder the operation would have killed her

I thought that they weren’t sure whether the deaths were due to the person actually having caught covid, especially if it was in the 7-14 days after having the vaccine?
I haven’t personally heard of any deaths, they would have to be reported to the MHRA, we have well established mechanisms for this.
Care homes are getting the AZ vaccine

I had someone tell me that their mother knew someone who had died 4 days after having the vaccine. I asked how he had died and she didn’t know. I suggested that unless cause of death is known it can’t be linked to the vaccine yet, he could have been run over by a bus 4 days after having the vaccine. Any number of things could have caused his death if he was 80+.

"More than 20 000 doses of the vaccine have been administered over the past few weeks in Norway and around 400 deaths normally occur among care home residents every week."

of which 23 occurred so soon after the jab that they are being investigated.

23/20k among people who were probably extremely unwell at time they got the jab... doesn't seem scary news to me.

Younger people do die though and chances are it will happen freakishly soon after the vaccine somewhere in the world

@hollyangel

Why is it ok to brush off these deaths soon after taking the vaccine as deaths that don't matter as they probably would have happened anyway to the old and infirm?

But then the prevailing narrative since March has been that Covid deaths in the very elderly(which are the vast majority as the median age of death is people in their 80s with underlying conditions) are totally unacceptable and we must lockdown the whole country in order to prevent the deaths of these people would most likely have died that year anyway?

Doesn't make any sense to me.

That's a really good point. In fact with covid I saw a lot of comments along the lines of "even one death is one too many".

@Calamitypatch, my apologies if I am talking through my hat. I am not a scientist, I will be 65 this year and I have memory failures, so I could well have imagined reading reports about the side-effects of the vaccine on the over 65s.

I was looking forward to getting the vaccine, but I'm a little scared now after reading that. I don't believe that they died, 'because people were near the end of their life anyway....'

These people could have lived another 10 years, or 15, or 20...

It is most definitely not 'just a coincidence' that they died just after having the vaccine. The vaccine clearly triggered it.

Then again, no-one has died from it (in the UK,) that I know of. So I am bit confused.

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been mentioned but I saw a report last week that a man in his late 50s had fallen ill a few days after receiving the pfizer vaccine. His wife said he was taken into hospital and diagnosed with having a severe reaction to the vaccine, he died a few days later. They obviously don't know for sure if it was the vaccine but I am sure they must be investigating.

Meant so say this was in America.

Yes yes yes @hollyangel

I also saw the Norway report and it said there had been a similar number of deaths here. I don't know if that is correct because I haven't seen any other reports. The implication was that these people were very frail people and the deaths weren't statistically more than at any other time so it wasn't thought they were linked to the vaccine.

15,000 people die a week in January in an average year in the UK. Most of those will be elderly. So we're going to see thousands die having recently had a vaccine. This doesn't mean it's the vaccine causing it.

In Norway 40,000 people a year die. So nearly 1000 a week would be normal at the moment.Again, most of these will be elderly and a lot will have just been vaccinated.

29 is completely unremarkable.

In the article it says this.
All deaths are thus linked to this vaccine,” the Norwegian Medicines Agency said in a written response to Bloomberg on Saturday.

I wonder if they're doing trials of smaller doses of the vaccine?

We’ll look at it like this, IF they died due to a reaction of an ingredient in the vaccine, then it’s highly likely they would have sadly died if they caught the virus anyway.

I suppose it’s like a life saving heart operation. Nothing is 100% assured but if they’re told if they don’t have the operation, they will die.

If they do have it, there is a 5% chance the patient would die during the operation.

Majority of people would have the operation because they would certainly die if they didn’t.

It’s such a shame

Most over 80s are being vaccinated in pcn hubs or in care homes so will get the Oxford vaccine.

I don't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised that for testing the vaccine healthy people probably were selected, even if older. So if someone is older and not totally healthy they might be more severely affected.

There was a mention that people with lower immunity may not respond well to it but no immunity lab checks are made.

@starfro

15,000 people die a week in January in an average year in the UK. Most of those will be elderly. So we're going to see thousands die having recently had a vaccine. This doesn't mean it's the vaccine causing it.

In Norway 40,000 people a year die. So nearly 1000 a week would be normal at the moment.Again, most of these will be elderly and a lot will have just been vaccinated.

29 is completely unremarkable.

Exactly!!!

Oh for heavens sake.

With all medicines there is a reporting system to see if side effects occur.
So if someone dies within X days of a vaccine, especially a new one, it will be collated.
Of course some people will die within a week or 14 days after the vaccine, just in the normal course of events, especially if the people being given the vaccine are currently mainly 70+.

It doesn't mean the vaccine has necessarily caused the deaths. But they have to study / do analysis to see whether there is any causation. It would be remiss if there wasn't any follow up.

The amount of scaremongering on here is ridiculous.

It isnt major news though. Its a small amount of very elderly frail people have died within a certain period of having the vaccine.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9142877/CDC-Pfizer-investigating-death-Miami-obstetrician-died-two-weeks-getting-vaccine.html

My 81 yr old mum was vaccinated and given booster..
She is walking miles a day, very fit for age, slim..
There are huge variables in 80 yr olds
Being slim and active seems to help enormously.
Her friends of similar age and activity levels have had both jabs too with zero ill effects.