So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

@Time2change2 you’ve hit the nail on the head , and the fact so many people are not questioning any of this! It’s insane what is happening and I’m very worried

@Frazzled2207 Are you really saying you want everyone else around you to be vaccinated just not you and do you think that will work?

No, I think the vulnerable should be vaccinated to protect them (as we do with things like flu) and the rest of us, who are low risk can choose whether to have the vaccine or contribute to herd immunity through natural infection as millions of people in the U.K. have already done. It’s worked for plenty of other diseases in the past with higher fatality rates pre-vaccines so why wouldn’t it now? At least now the more vulnerable can be offered some protection to keep them safe while the community protection levels get high enough to reduce spread.

[quote bumbleymummy]@Belladonna12 but not everyone wants to be vaccinated for a disease that is low risk for them. We don’t all rush out every year to have the flu vaccine even though it’s available.[/quote]
Nobody knows whether there are long-term risks from Covid. Many autoimmune diseases are thought to be triggered by viruses for example even if the person was infected many years previously and had mild or no symptoms. Who knows what Covid will do long-term. There is no risk-free option.

bumblemummy so if you were vulnerable you'd have no arguments with getting vaccinated?

thereisnonly the reason not to do that is to me clear. Once something is done it is done. The government machine spins out leaks and messages to test the waters, debate and public opinion is critical before the fact not after it.

As before I get called a c again, it’s a basic fact of PR that that has always been done. It’s not a conspiracy it’s marketing and governance. We do it for our organisation.

Maybe you need to step back a bit @Gigheimer and save your anger for the reality? Mouthing off on a forum might be helping you anger but it's not going to change anything at all.

Whatever is decided may be the same across most of the western world.

Businesses like pubs have a right to allow whoever they like into their premises- so if they want to see a vaccine passport they can do so.

What is clear about your posts is that you assume anyone who isn't as vocal on this as you is ignorant, stupid or both.

You don't have a monopoly on intelligence or understanding of the vaccine.

Why not wait and see before ranting?

. The government machine spins out leaks and messages to test the waters,

And they are bound to be glued to Mumsnet

I heard from someone the other day that they thought all MPs should have it first to 'test it on them'.

I think hating the government is causing issues with people when it comes to protecting ourselves and others.

I'm as anti Tory as you can get.

But I just thought: if they came out and said MPs would get the vaccine first, people would be demanding they got access first.

I agree with bumblemummy and yes, if i was was vulnerable I would get tue vaccine, im not so I won't be getting it. Its about weighing up the positives and the negatives im young and healthy, i dont feel im at risk and I don't feel I should risk my own health to keep others safe from a virus that kills 1% of people that catch it. Of all vulnerable people are vaccinated and the elderly then the rest of us can just build heard imunity or/and take their chances. You can't force people to have it.

Actually Jingling you underestimate how influential Mumsnet is as a dip poll of certain demographics. It is used as a barometer. And as a (bloody expensive) marketing tool. Been there paid for that.

Social media listening is also an incredibly powerful tool to scrape and understand public opinion.

My anger is fine thanks and my posts are factual and debating, I have regularly acknowledged other points of view.

@Gigheimer Jesus even fronting up and saying “fuck it for x y z reasons you’re all having it let’s take a vote” would be better as it gives voice to everyone

Oh please no! Having Brexit foisted on us is bad enough!

Still waiting for someone pushing compulsory mass vaccination to explain why someone who is immune already should be forced to have it. (And just to address the obvious - we know immunity from infection lasts 6+ months and we don’t yet know how long immunity from the vaccine lasts.)

@Lovemusic33

I agree with bumblemummy and yes, if i was was vulnerable I would get tue vaccine, im not so I won't be getting it. Its about weighing up the positives and the negatives im young and healthy, i dont feel im at risk and I don't feel I should risk my own health to keep others safe from a virus that kills 1% of people that catch it. Of all vulnerable people are vaccinated and the elderly then the rest of us can just build heard imunity or/and take their chances. You can't force people to have it.

You are risking your own health by not having the vaccine. Covid sometimes affects the healthy short-term. Viruses have been implicated in autoimmune disease and cancers in people who are only mildly affected at the time. Who knows what Covid could do.

@Stellaris22 I don’t know. It would depend on how vulnerable I was, I guess. Plenty of vulnerable people choose not to have the flu vaccine every year and are free to do so without having their freedom curtailed.

@Belladonna12 yes, but we all take risks with our own health every day - drinking/smoking/driving/risk-sports. The important thing is that it’s our decision to make

Right, but your post sounded like you meant all vulnerable people should get it and you get to choose because you are healthy.

But if you were vulnerable you'd go against your own argument and still choose not to have it?

@MilkSweatAndTears exactly. I find the compliance and non questioning keeps making my blood run cold.
Blindly following the ‘we must keep ourselves safe’ narrative until they are backed in a corner with no liberties left, but it’s ok because they are safe and not ‘selfish’
There is far more to life than worrying about ‘being safe’ and supposedly not being ‘selfish’
It’s far more complex than that.
This vax may be totally safe, it may be totally effective. There again, it may not. It has not been tested on the wider public, all age groups, a multitude of different genetic make ups and medical histories. It’s not knows if it stops the spread even, so the argument of being ‘selfish’ if you don’t have it may be moot.
And yes to answer those asking, I would rather have on off restrictions for years if the alternative was mandatory vaccinations and passports to get the basics like a job and food.
The Liberty taken away when you are forced against your will to cause irreversible changes inside your body for life is far greater IMO than shopping online and eating at home

@Stellaris22 oh no, vulnerable people should still get to choose. I wouldn’t force it on anyone. There are obviously a lot of people out there who are very concerned about COVID so they can choose to be vaccinated to reduce the risks for themselves. I do agree with the more vulnerable groups being given the choice first though. Everyone else can decide whether or not they’re happy to take their chances with the virus, as we do for lots of other things. If people contract the disease they are still contributing to herd immunity.

I hate this. I am a key worker and as a supermarket worker already deal with people leaning over me as I work and all sorts.

Now we have to deal with people refusing a vaccine and the risks from when SD and masks are no longer mandatory.

It's very clear that key workers aren't seen as important or even people anymore. But I already know anti vaxxers don't care about anyone other than themselves.

Yes, it's a choice and you have every right to refuse. But be aware that it is selfish and dangerous for the people around you.

can then* decide

@Stellaris22 why? Are you planning not to get the vaccine yourself?

[quote bumbleymummy]@Belladonna12 yes, but we all take risks with our own health every day - drinking/smoking/driving/risk-sports. The important thing is that it’s our decision to make[/quote]
I haven't said it isn't your decision. I couldn't care less what you do. I just think you have a bizarre perception of risk. Why worry about a vaccine which has been given to thousands of people with no serious side-effects but not worry about a virus which is killed a couple of million people so far. I appreciate that most of those people were elderly or had known underlying conditions but not all. Whilst we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccine, we also don't know the long-term effects of the virus.

@Belladonna12 Eh? I’m not worried about the vaccine. I’m sure it will be fine for most people. I just don’t agree with compulsory/coerced vaccination for a virus that causes mild/asymptomatic illness in the vast majority of people. People should be allowed to choose whether or not they want it.

Lots of vulnerable people can't have vaccines. I am in this group.

I'm so so grateful for all the people willing to have the vaccine in order to protect vulnerable people who's lives are already extremely hard and isolating.

Covid is not the same as flu.

And 'effectively compulsory' is not the same as 'compulsory'.

My best friend is vulnerable so I haven't seen her for 10 months and we've been friends for 33 years! She still has an actual choice shield or die.

It seems like I will soon have a choice too vaccinate or remain in a personal lockdown.

To me that sounds fair.

@Gigheimer I advise you find a way to become a multi billionaire and buy your own island. Then you won't have to worry about competing with people whose needs are more important than yours.

@Dancinggroot

In terms of vaccine injury, around 228 per year, including adults and children.

But these are numbers related to existing tried and tested vaccines. They could look very different for Covid vaccines that use new technology never used before (e.g. mRNA)