So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

OhTinnitus what about the million of people in the UK who are already immune through natural infection? They're contributing to herd immunity too.

millions*

I tend to agree with those who think this suggestion is very very sinister. To effectively bar someone from society if they don't have a vaccine is coercion and a serious violation of the basic human right to bodily autonomy. No-one can be forced (and excluding them from shops and restaurants is effectively forcing them) to undergo a medical procedure against their will.

I would think this about any vaccine, and no, I'm not a tin-foil hat anti-vaxxer; my children are fully vaccinated. But it goes double for a new vaccine against a disease that poses no significant threat to most of the population, and which is based on technology that is new and has no associated data on long-term effects. That's without considering the practical considerations that vaccine-mediated immunity is likely to be short lived (if indeed 'natural' immunity is), most of the population aren't currently going to be offered the vaccine anyway (no children will be as it has not been tested in children), and as things stand vaccination is not known to prevent you passing on infection. It strikes me as a poorly-considered knee-jerk comment based on the assumption that a vaccine can never do harm and will eliminate disease, neither of which are true, and it is frankly outrageous.

@Headspinner2020 You made a comment about a London hospital with an a&e only having 9 covid patients - strangely I know people working in London hospitals and not one would believe that for a moment.

OP the vaccine is not going to be compulsory, your title is scaremongering and has therefore attracted all the conspiracy theorists and those who lie about the data. So you are getting more pushback than you otherwise would.

You would be able to obtain food from home delivery services, as many people have had to do for months. You wouldnt starve - if you cant work you'd still be able to get benefit payments. I'm sure there would be conspiracy theorist businesses that would still give you work for a time, although they might go out of business if people chose not to visit them. There would also be people offering you minimum wage jobs and happy to exploit you. You could do outdoor work, if cheap enough people would employ you. You could found your own business, serving the other people who felt like you.

The NHS would still treat you if necessary, although you could expect some pretty disgusted looks.

If you have a car you could still travel, paying at pump for your petrol. I expect you'd still be allowed on buses, except for those operated without government subsidies.

So stop pretending you wont be able to live, you would simply be excluded from activities that involve a lot of people who wouldnt want to be around you.

I'm so so grateful for all the people willing to have the vaccine in order to protect vulnerable people who's lives are already extremely hard and isolating

And this sums it up doesn't it? It's thinking of your fellow human being as far as I'm concerned, which is why my DD has had the vaccine as part of the trial, she just wanted to do something to help. And why I put my name down too and I'm part of another study. And why I will be having the vaccine, not only to protect myself but to protect others.

@alreadytaken finally! A level headed and sensible person, thank you.

@Roussette

DD was part of trial vaccine. She had no symptoms at all. 2 jabs, 3 weeks apart, no problem.

Maybe she was given the placebo?

Maybe she was. She will never know whether she had the placebo or not. But that is the nature of a trial isn't it? Although they are giving her some information about how people have fared and so far it's good

@alreadytaken I would describe that as 'existing' not living tbf.

If someone is immune because they have had cv why shouldn't they be allowed to leave the house/go to restaurants/travel etc? I don't think any of the pro-forced vaccine posters have answered this yet. (Remember - we know that acquired immunity from infection lasts at least 6 months and we don't yet know how long vaccine induced immunity lasts)

@SkedaddIe

And 'effectively compulsory' is not the same as 'compulsory'.

How are these different? Genuinely curious

I wonder if some people misunderstand what a vaccine is and how it works? A vaccine will trigger your body's own natural immune response.
Why is the vaccination being referred to as a "medical procedure" "something inserted into my body" "medication forced on me!" on this thread. What a load of overly dramatic hyperbole.

It's not sinister to expect some consequences if you refuse a vaccine. This isn't a new thing, there are limitations on people who refuse vaccinations currently available.

It's sad how social media scaremongering can gain traction. We only have to look at the disastrous fall out when the MMR scaremongering on social media took hold.

bumble you've answered your own question.
When did the person contract covid, did they take a positive test, how long does immunity last, can they prove when they had it, have they had antibody tests... all such grey areas.
My relation who had covid badly (still suffering since March) she had covid confirmed. She has had two antibody tests, neither of which show she's had it. The only effective say is to have one that is sent off and analysed. Maybe those who are anti vaxx should pay to have that

covid vaccines will no doubt be rolled out yearly to keep immunity going.

I know what I'd prefer

Smileyvclare should be vaccination be required for people who are already immune through being infected? Why should there be limitations for people who are immune?

@alreadytaken I'm sorry but you start off by accussing OP of scare-mongering and then go on to describe some sort of hideous dystopia which is far more scare-mongering than anything they've posted

@SmileyClare

Why is the vaccination being referred to as a "medical procedure" "something inserted into my body"

But most vaccines are injected into your body, what do you mean?

Also, in the case of mRNA, the whole process is more complex, more akin to medical treatment in my view

@rousette the person who has had the vaccine doesn't know if they're immune either. It's not 100% effective. As I said at the very start, it would make more sense to require proof of immunity rather than proof of vaccination.

8000 claims for vaccine damage related compensation (granted adults and kids) in 35 years

Not sure where this figure comes from. In the UK there are around 80 claims per year for vaccine damage related compensation. The vast majority of these claims fail. There are only 1-2 successful claims per year.

Of course, if you go back 35 years you will include a substantial number of claims from parents of autistic children who wrongly believed that their child's autism was caused by the MMR vaccine.

But that would be a massive ask. As I said... my relation who is still poorly from March with covid shows she has no immunity on the cheap pinprick drop of blood antibody tests she's done twice.

We've done them as part of a test too, it's something you wait for 15 mins and tells you. But it told her she has no antibodies.

The only effective way is to send a test off and it is apparently expensive.

*and it tells you

Has there been some sort of anti-vaxxer invasion? There are so many of these types of threads at the moment.

I think that as masks are normalised now people need something to 'be against'.

"It's been pretty obvious all along to the scientists and medics, that a lockdown was needed.

Yes you're right about children. It was Chris Whitty who said that about children. When he said it, is crucial. Have you heard of hindsight?"

It was obvious to some scientists but certainly not all. There is a very significant number who disagreed and continue to disagree very vocally although they are largely ignored by the mainstream media who tow the 'official' line which is reported as 'the science' by minsters and journalists both which immediately exposes either their lack of understanding of science or their determination to indulge in propaganda dressed up as something far more respectable,

It wasn't Twitty who wrote about children, certainly not the article I read anyway. By this point I don't read or listen to a word he says. It was an
American epidemiologist who was/is anti-lockdown. Still can't remember his name.

@rousette yes, but it's the only thing that would actually make sense if people are planning restrictions based on immunity status.

@Stellaris22 I don't think it's really a new thing to be against restricting people's freedom

8000 claims for vaccine damage related compensation (granted adults and kids) in 35 years

Do you have a source for that figure?

There have been fewer than a thousand actual vaccine damage payments since 1978 and around five in the last couple of years.

fullfact.org/online/vaccine-damage-fund/

[quote trulydelicious]@SkedaddIe

And 'effectively compulsory' is not the same as 'compulsory'.

How are these different? Genuinely curious[/quote]
Compulsory would mean no choice at all. Effectively compulsory means you would be able to decline but the consequences of declining would be so great that really your only choice would be to have it.