So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

[Firefliess]

They don't have the same components, obviously, because they're targeting different viruses. But the principal of how a vaccine works is common to all vaccines, yes. And I'm not aware of any vaccines that cause infertility. Are you?

[trulydelicious]

@Firefliess

And I'm not aware of any vaccines that cause infertility. Are you?

The existing ones no, the new Covid ones no one knows yet

[SheepandCow]

The government must be praying for as many vaccine refusers as possible. The reports are saying there may not be another batch delivered for a while. This first lot isn't even enough for all the very highest priority group. Compulsory? With severe shortages? As if!

[SOmuchsparkle]

You don't want a vaccine? Don't have it 🤷‍♀️

[trulydelicious]

@SOmuchsparkle

How would those pictures help a mature debate?

[SexTrainGlue]

@Firefliess

They don't have the same components, obviously, because they're targeting different viruses. But the principal of how a vaccine works is common to all vaccines, yes. And I'm not aware of any vaccines that cause infertility. Are you?

India has been working for years to try and create one

If this had any plausible way it could act to affect gamete production, then there would be a positive stampede of interest.

I don't think there are any working hypotheses in this area

[SkedaddIe]

@SheepandCow

The government must be praying for as many vaccine refusers as possible. The reports are saying there may not be another batch delivered for a while. This first lot isn't even enough for all the very highest priority group. Compulsory? With severe shortages? As if!

Don't believe it!

They've got stockpiles of the stuff guarded by special ops marines, daleks and the Borg.

It's a conspiracy to coerce us into taking it so they can put microchips into our bodies and control us.

[trollopolis]

[quote trulydelicious]@SOmuchsparkle

How would those pictures help a mature debate?[/quote]
Surely they're just a good TL:DR for the difference between research and 'research'?

There isn't a debate to be had, just don't have a vaccine if you don't want one. Do be aware of the role of accounts associated with Russian trolls making posts on rejecting vaccine.

[bumbleymummy]

@trollopolis

But it’s not the point really is it? We don’t all go out and get every vaccine that is available. That’s not to do with safety concerns, it’s to do with choosing to be vaccinated against things that are more of a risk to us.

[trulydelicious]

@trollopolis

The debate is very much alive and kicking. It will even be debated in Parliament, there's an open petition

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442

trolls making posts on rejecting vaccine

Do you think anyone worried about these new vaccines is a troll? This is frankly childish

[trollopolis]

??

I agree that you can decline vaccinations, even if reasons are utterly flaky, based on 'research' or stoked by the Russian troll-bots

It'll be much more noticeable that there are refusers, simply because levels of immunity and transmission are what will end (or not end) restrictions.

[trollopolis]

Do you think anyone worried about these new vaccines is a troll? This is frankly childish

No of course not. I'm citing the WHO about the role of accounts associated with Russian trolls in the anti vax 'movement'. The evidence.

[SOmuchsparkle]

@trulydelicious I don't find antivaxers very mature. There is no debate.

[trollopolis]

I mentioned WHO, as they have combating disinformation as one of the major goal - the role of trolls is far from a minor issue- , but this EU assessment is also a worthwhile read

www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2020/649369/EPRS_ATA(2020)649369_EN.pdf

Googling 'Russian troll vaccination' will also bring up peer-reviewed evidence about activity on social media from Russian trollbots.

[trulydelicious]

@SOmuchsparkle

But the debate is taking place in Parliament. What do you mean?

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442

I don't find people who do not want to debate very mature

[MrsGradyOldLady]

So if the only people saying online they won't be taking the vaccine are Russian bots what's the problem? All the people who aren't Russian bots will still take the vaccine won't they?

[chomalungma]

Personally - I hope that people who take the mRNA vaccine will be checked for side effects over a long period - it's a great breakthrough but it's a very different approach to traditional vaccines.

If I took any vaccine, it would be one based on a traditional vaccine technology.

[chomalungma]

@Firefliess

They don't have the same components, obviously, because they're targeting different viruses. But the principal of how a vaccine works is common to all vaccines, yes. And I'm not aware of any vaccines that cause infertility. Are you?

The mRNA approach is a novel approach to vaccine development in humans. It's an interesting approach - and personally I would like much longer safety information to see long term side effects.

[trollopolis]

So if the only people saying online they won't be taking the vaccine are Russian bots

They are not all be Russian bots - read the evidence - they will include many people who have fallen under the influence of trolls (or whose friends/contacts have) That is why it's a WHO key priority. The trolling leads to RL outcomes.

[SOmuchsparkle]

@trulydelicious I find it disappointing when seemingly intelligent adults will try to turn this into a debate.

Over 60k people have died this year.

The vaccine development has been fast because deaths are happening in developed / white countries and there has not been the usual delay due to funding issues

Other vaccine programmes save thousands of lives every year. Otherwise many of our kids would have died from childhood diseases.

Yes a small number of people may have adverse reactions to any drug. But not 60k of them!

Have the vaccine or don't have the vaccine.

Yes there is a civic reason to do so. It's not just about you & your choice & you may not be able to visit some countries without it. Again that is your choice.

🤷‍♀️

[trulydelicious]

@trollopolis

I've been reading these threads and most of the debate is well informed and people try to link to reputable sources. There are genuine concerns in relation to these new vaccines and the potential for them to become effectively compulsory

So bringing up the issue of trollbots here is not relevant or helpful

[trulydelicious]

@chomalungma

The mRNA approach is a novel approach to vaccine development in humans. It's an interesting approach - and personally I would like much longer safety information to see long term side effects.

^This

[Pluckedpencil]

100% agree. People should be given access to the safety data and be heavily encouraged through that data, but the minute you take away people's right to go to work/school etc, we can't say this is voluntary, because for most people going to work is not a choice, ergo you don't have a choice about the vaccine.

[trollopolis]

So bringing up the issue of trollbots here is not relevant or helpful

It is very relevant, as it is one of the current global health priorities.

Excluding the role of trolls (whose 'concerns' can be highly plausible to a lay reader) misses one of the mrost important angles

I'll stop here, with one last suggestion that people do actually take the time to follow links about the sheer scale of disinformation and misrepresentation (that some seek to exclude from discussion)

[MissConductUS]

The mRNA approach is a novel approach to vaccine development in humans. It's an interesting approach - and personally I would like much longer safety information to see long term side effects.

This is understandable given the relative newness of mRNA vaccines, but there are good reasons to think that they will actually be safer than traditional vaccines. Most viral vaccines contain either an attenuated or killed version of the virus they stimulate an immune response for. So they require putting the actual pathogen in the jab. That's a risk that the mRNA vaccines avoid.

Here's a very good discussion of how they work for anyone who wants a non technical explanation.

Can you explain what mRNA is? How do these vaccines work? Also, I heard it changes my DNA. That seems scary.

mRNA vaccines work by inserting an mRNA molecule into your body, which your cells then read as instructions to produce certain viral proteins (specifically, the SARS-COV-2 spike protein). Your immune cells then recognize this viral protein because it is foreign—your human DNA doesn’t contain any instructions on how to make this protein, so it has never been made before.

When your immune cells recognize the protein, they make antibodies against it. The antibodies are, effectively, antibodies against the SARS-COV-2 virus. If the actual virus is introduced to your body, the antibodies recognize the spike protein and destroy it.

mRNA does not change your DNA. It survives in cells for a very short period of time—usually a few hours.

You could refuse the mRNA jab when it's offered to you and hope that something more traditional is available to you later. But then you run the risk of getting the virus while you wait. Severe cases are relatively rare but truly awful - struggling to breath, severe headaches and fatigue and quite frankly the fear of death.

A sensible balancing of the quite remote risk of some serious side effects of the mRNA vaccine and the much higher and very well-understood risk of the disease would indicate that you are better off taking the first vaccine offered to you as soon as you can get it.