So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

[ScottishStottie]

All the examples youve listed are im assuming private businesses (private sector working, privatised public transport) so of course they can put any restrictions in place that they want.

Im just waiting for all the hand wringers to come out and talk about how they are being 'discriminated against' by not being allowed to go to a gig or the cinema.

If you chose not to have the vaccine your restrictions will be no worse than they were in lockdown. As you have done nothing to allow yourseld to safely integrate back in to society. People need to take responsibility for their own safety and decisions, and not expect everyone to pander to their whims about this all.

[JayAlfredPrufrock]

I had to have vaccines before being allowed to travel to certain countries. My choice. Go or stay.

There was talk about making school attendance dependent on the MMR vaccine.

🤷‍♀️

[Alternista]

If you’re not prepared to have it that’s your choice, but I fully support it being made a condition of access to public spaces. Those of us who can need to protect those who can’t. Sorry if that interferes with your “civil liberties” but I’d rather protect the liberty of the vulnerable.

[Gancanny]

Exactly as others have said, if you choose not to vaccinate then you have to live with the consequences. Usually the consequences would be the risk of catching the disease in question, and the risk of all associated complications, and/or passing that disease onto vulnerable people. In this case the consequences also include having your access to specific places and activities restricted.

[JayAlfredPrufrock]

It’s a brave new world.

[marsiettina]

I’m not liking where this so called non compulsory (but compulsory) vaccine is heading. If I cannot go or do anything unless I have the vaccine, then it’s compulsory.

If the vaccine was a one time only deal then maybe I would think about having it, but every year, like the flu jab is not very appealing.
It cannot be compared to small pox etc as those vaccines were tested over a number of years and then administered. I’m not happy with how fast everything can go through to get the Covid vaccine out.

[Gigheimer]

Workplaces and public transport and food shops are not optional.

Just admit it’s compulsory.

So you’re all ok for your kids to have it, even when it poses close to zero risk to them? Not proven over the long term, the risk of vaccine damage is a real thing, usually outweighed by the risk of the disease itself.

Hence why I fully support the MMR.

The risk of vaccine damage from this outweighs the disease for kids. Still ok?

[dottiedaisee]

@Firefliess

There are already some other vaccines that are compulsory for travelling to certain countries from certain other countries. So this is nothing new. It's just that we've not been affected much by those rules in the UK as we've not had large outbreaks of a serious infectious disease for many decades.

If you're not vaccinated you're a risk to the health of others who can't have the vaccine or who it doesn't work for, so not surprising that airlines, immigration boards, large venues, etc are considering limiting access to those who are vaccinated. I'd imagine travel insurance will charge you more in the future if you're not vaccinated too.

100%this !! Agree that it is a pain but so many countries expect certain vaccines on entry.

[yawnsvillex]

I agree with you OP

Terrifying

[LastTrainEast]

"that’s not freedom"

You can't have total freedom without taking away other people's freedom. You are free to find an uninhabited part of the world and manage alone.

[Changethetoner]

Having a mobile phone is not compulsory. Using the QR code is not compulsory.

[EasterIssland]

@Gigheimer

They include work places and public transport.so it’s truly my “free choice” to not be able to work, earn and eat if I don’t take a vaccine? If I don’t choose medical intervention?

You call that free choice? We don’t demand it for measles, TB, Flu or anything else we trust to public uptake and prepare the NHS to deal with the rest.

Where did that go?

There is currently no problems regarding measles and most of the people are immune (because a vaccine) to it

Flu , it doesn’t cause as many problems as currently COVID is creating because of rhe same reason . Most of the population immune hence doesn’t cause so many nhs problems.

You won’t be forced , however , your company might not like the need of self isolate every now and again cuz of fever or cuz of being in contact that someone doesn’t have it. My sons nursery asked for which vax did he have for enrolling him, I’m pretty sure they’ll want this one if it’s allowed for kids. They want to protect their staff (specially the vulnerable one) and other kids families. If you don’t want to then you can search for another childcare

Same problem with companies , which business wants to have to close every now and again because a case in their place when it can’t be avoided ? None. Hence I think they’ll demand it.

Do people want to carry on with lockdown and so for many much longer with the side effects it has? Not sure what will be worse having a vaccine we don’t know the side effects of it or a 2-3 lockdowns per year until there is natural herd immunity

And yes , measles’s and so nobody asks for proof. Because , years ago when they were a problem the population got vaccinated so they could protect themselves and the rest.

[Laufeythejust]

If you don’t want it then don’t have it but I completely agree with restrictions being placed on where you can go.

The vaccine is a real chance of putting an end to the lockdowns and social isolation. If everyone had the same attitude as you then this will never end. Personally I’ll be there on the dot the second they let me have it.

[Headspinner2020]

I totally agree with you op

[RhubarbTea]

It is really scary. I can't believe this is happening to our society so quickly and that most people are not up in arms about it.
It's bullshit to say they won't make it mandatory and then make it pretty much impossible to live if you choose not to have it.
You're not the only one concerned at this, OP.

[Gancanny]

The risk of vaccine damage from this outweighs the disease for kids

Proof of your so-far unfounded claim?

Vaccine damage is rare - very rare - and most adverse effects from vaccines tend to be more or less immediate.

The vaccine has been produced so quickly because its had a fuck-tonne of money thrown at it, there was already existing research into coronovirus vaccines that was able to be carried across, research was shared between teams, the various stages were run concurrently, and there were no pauses for grant applications, shortages of test volunteers, etc. None of the development stages associated with vaccine production were missed.

I don't know if it will be offered to children but DH and I will be having it as soon as we can and, if it was offered, so would my DC - even the one who has had an allergic reaction to a vaccine in the past.

[hopingforonlychild]

How is it different from the kindergardens in other countries i.e. Germany and Australia who refuse to admit children if they weren't vaccinated? Most people here in the UK thought it was sensible because this meant vulnerable children (who can't be vaccinated) could attend those kindergardens.

Vulnerable people who can't get the vaccine due to medical considerations should also have the right to use public transport/go into airports, schools and workplaces without worrying that they will encounter infected people.

[Unsure33]

That is not compulsory. You are spreading falsehoods.

[WhenAWrenVisits]

I agree with you OP but not everyone will get the vaccine this year. There simply won’t be enough to go round. businesses won’t be able to demand it on entry until it’s available to all. At which point hopefully everyone will be feeling a lot calmer and more rational. There’ll also be people who can’t have the vaccine for medical reasons etc. It’ll probably end up being the next mask saga.

[VeryQuaintIrene]

If you don't want yours, OP, I'll gladly take it and get back, to some sort of normal life.

[Lalliella]

@ScottishStottie

Your free choice is there. As is the free choice of various businesses that may want to safeguard their staff and customers by restricting access to people who have not had the vaccine. Simple as that.

If you dont want the vaccine your access to some areas may be limited, but that is your choice, and choices have consequences. Pros amd cons on both sides that each person can weigh up.

^^ this

You can choose not to have the vaccine, and other people can choose to deny you access to their businesses. You can’t have it both ways.

[thepeopleversuswork]

Does your choice not to be vaccinated trump the choice of who are forced to work in public areas such as schools, supermarkets, hospitals to work safely?

Businesses and every organisations have a right some would say an obligation to protect their employees and the general public.

If you want the "free will" not to take a life-saving vaccine by all means crack on but don't expect others not to take reasonable precautions to protect other people who will be endangered by this choice.

[Lilybet1980]

The risk of vaccine damage from this outweighs the disease for kids. Still ok?

Vaccines aren’t only given to children to protect themselves. Vaccines provide essential herd immunity for those who can’t have vaccines.

What alternative are you proposing OP? Should we keep the country in lockdown indefinitely? How long needs to pass for you to be comfortable with a vaccine? 3 years of testing? 5 years? Should we just shut down the economy until then? Stop people seeing friends and family for years?

I’m really interested to know what your preferable outcome would be.

[EasterIssland]

@RhubarbTea

It is really scary. I can't believe this is happening to our society so quickly and that most people are not up in arms about it.
It's bullshit to say they won't make it mandatory and then make it pretty much impossible to live if you choose not to have it.
You're not the only one concerned at this, OP.

What would be the proposal / alternative then til we have a vaccine and we’ve seen it’s long side effects (3-4 years?)

[AngelicaSchuylerAndHerSisters]

The only way diseases can be eradicated is by mass vaccinations. My friend’s teenage son caught mumps a few years ago despite having the MMR. His GP told them that there are more cases now because not everyone vaccinates their children. Luckily he was okay.
COVID is not like Chicken Pox which is low risk so therefore not vaccinated against. This awful infection kills people.