I genuinely don’t get it?!

[Rapphue]

Hopeful for balanced and sincere posts here rather than the assumption that I’m ‘playing ignorance’ or some other accusation because my question undermines the government narrative.

FWIW I’m educated and well read, albeit I don’t have huge in depth knowledge politics, nor do I claim to!

But I don’t understand why we are having restrictions imposed for a virus that is no worse than other illnesses. Even if I accept that it is harmless to the NHS should it escalate fast and make many ill at the same time (so far no hospitals have been maxed out with corona - my SIL works as a hospital doctor in intense care and has said there hasn’t been even 50% corona patients in any ward at one time. She works in a busy London hospital)...even if I accept it could escalate and we don’t want that, then:

1. Why is there suddenly a lack of concern about public health in general? People are dying because they are having treatment postponed due to Coronavirus. Hospitals are not busy and certainly not full of corona patients. It seems crazy to me that anyone who may fall ill non corona related is now at the back of the queue. Tough shit if that ends in your death.

1. Pubs open until 10pm. I use this as one example of many arbitrary rules. Why does the virus suddenly operate after 10pm? Is it a vampire? Surely you can infect just as many people at 9:59pm as you can at 10pm. Is it just to reduce risk overall? If so then I think someone needs to read a gcse science textbook... the risk has already been taken if the pub is open full stop.

1. Cashless society...erm. Why?

I’m not trying to incite some sort of dramatic post. I hope there are honest reasons for operating as we have the last few months. I hope I am wrong to feel cynical. I hope - and suspect - I’m not knowledgeable enough to understand why this is happening how it is.

As far as I can tell this is very much about controlling people’s lives to their detriment. If it was about health why on Earth are we letting people get sick and delaying treatment because of a virus?

Is there something in the London protests yesterday? Am I missing something medical, political or scientific here?

That should say even if I accept that it is HARMFUL to the NHS, not harmless!

I have no other advice other than I have the same queries and concerns as you!

Remember back in March when Boris was absolutely slated for not locking down the country sooner or harder?

Well now they're acting more stringently and they're being slated for that. He can't win!

FWIW I'm actually with you on this, except for the controlling people thing, it's in the Governments interest to keep the economy open, not locking down. Get ready to see a Recession/Depression like you've never seen before and for our children's children to be paying off the debt amassed during this pandemic. What a laugh.

imposed for a virus that is no worse than other illnesses
What do you mean by this? There are many viruses of different severities. Covid is fatal for some and a causes hospitalisation to up to 20%. The reason hospitals haven't yet been overwhelmed is because of lockdown. If they were it would be disastrous.

The curfew is to reduce multiple contact. Those people in the pub at 10pm would likely go to another pub/bar and then another bar... if you eliminate that then you reduce the spread risk.

I think the 10 p.m. thing reduces the severity of drunkenness by limiting drinking time. The more inebriated people become, the less likely they are to socially distance.

And I don't understand why you can't understand. Guess we have to all just agree to disagree instead of spouting to same shit over and over again ! It's draining

But I don’t understand why we are having restrictions imposed for a virus that is no worse than other illnesses.

Your premise is wrong.

Hospitalisation rates.

I’m not slating Boris for saying close the pubs at 10pm. I’m not slating anyone or any decision - just questioning it I suppose?

I get that there needs to be some sort of balance if the economy is to keep going and be saved from utter devastation. But this is a virus. It will spread even if you are in a pub for a hour. Closing at 10 makes no odds. Either shut completely or let’s carry on as normal. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

Having delayed treatment because of a virus when hospitals are almost empty...I have a very close friend working in intensive care in a northern hospital and he has said it has been the easiest 6 months of work in his life!! I accept this may be coincidence and also may be his particular hospital but it seems very strange to me.

Then now there’s talk on giving up on cash. It sounds sinister.

I’m not one for conspiracy theories and know the virus is very real and a danger to human life. But what is going on alongside this just doesn’t make sense to me at all.

You’re secretly hoping everyone agrees with you and says you’ve homed in on points they never thought about. And yes, you are indeed trying to incite drama with your post.

I think hospitals may have made some mistakes with cancellations but can understand they anticipated the worse and planned for it.

What do you actually think is going on then? I don't really get what you are suggesting.

stoptheworld

If you don’t want to ‘spout the same shit’ then don’t post? Don’t even browse the Coronavirus board?

It’s extremely rude of you, actually. I’m simply asking a question and hopeful for an educated discussion. Good to see that you have an open mind, though.

In some ways posters like yourself terrify me. Even if the government is acting wholeheartedly in the peoples’ best interests, to sit back and never question or evaluate such policies leaves society in a great deal of potential danger.

the cure is worse than the disease

Not sure why a cashless society would be a bad thing?

I get small community raffles or donations would be hit, but it would reduce people working illegally, tax avoidance, drug dealers, black markets, cash in hand jobs, etc.

On the other hand you’d be tracked everywhere you go!

Without lockdown we could have had hundreds of thousands of deaths. We would have had huge disruption in society anyway, just with piles of dead bodies, traumatised health staff (even more than now) and huge bereavement in society.

Did you see the footage of Italy in March/ April?

If the UK selectively let it "rip" through society we would still have a damaged economy because no one would want to come here for business or leisure.

In fact, our government was very minded to keep going as normal, and lockdown only happened after a lot of international pressure. This might be in large part why our death toll initially was so high compared to
many other countries in Europe.

It is a new pathogen that we don't fully understand (so infections could have long term consequences.)

Also, the exponential growth means that it can look like there isn't much problem for a few weeks, until suddenly there is a huge problem - thousands and thousands of cases. We are seeing this a bit now, again.

As well as this, it takes 3 or 4 weeks for some people who get ill to get admitted to hospital and then die. So we are expecting the death toll in a month's time to be 100 per day just from covid.

But it could go much higher than that. The death toll this winter in the UK could be 80-120k. This is in addition to the deaths earlier this year. So we are looking at an illness that could cause 10 times more deaths than flu in a bad flu year.

In the UK, the NHS operates on a very tight margin, so this will have a huge impact on us. It will be a very difficult winter, even with all the measures in place.

oes that help a bit?

I am not well educated but I don't think it is as simple as been like any other virus.
The incubation period is much longer therefore your likely to infect more people.
Medical staff were on their knees throughout March and April some will suffer from PTSD some committed suicide and 600 medical staff died in the UK.
I think it is a little more serious than your average yearly virus.
My friend is really fit she is still ill 8 weeks later she lots clumps of hair too.
I'm not going over board with protection but some people don't give a shit.
For the people who have washed regularly and distanced it will help bring flu numbers down.

I agree your premise is wrong. I think you've forgotten the tv footage from Italy earlier this year - and their health service generally functions very well.

My younger friends don't tend to go out until 9/10 so it has dramatically altered their socialising.

Some of us gave up cash for all but school fairs and our window cleaner years ago!

I'm amazed that people think a Conservative government, particularly this Conservative government, would opt to lockdown. Fuck business may have been Johnson's line but it's certainly not the standard Tory view.

@Feelingconfused2020

The point many of us are wondering is why this virus. There's others that affect a minority worst than others eg flu. My personal theory is back in January/February we thought it was worse (higher death rate) than it turned out to be and governments having wrecked financial ruin on us don't want to admit it. It is serious for some people, I'm not denying that but I've known people end up in intensive care from infections that their body overreacted to before eg Guillian Barr syndrome and we didn't lock the rest of the country. The truth is we all die, and sadly some will die this year whether there's covid or not from catching diseases that are mild in most people because of their comorbidities, the true death rate of covid is how many people are dying once the expected deaths are set aside, including the handful of younger healthy people who do unfortunately die from flu etc. I don't have the figures to hand but heard them on bbc radio 4 and it's under 1% of covid deaths. Very sad for their families but a public health emergency which will affect our children and grandchildren's future???? What do you think?

feelingconfused and toilen

I think it’s true that they planned for the worst and rightly so.

As for what I think is really going on...I’m not sure. The current situation just doesn’t make sense hence my questioning of it. I think at this point it is possible that society is being manipulated - not as part of a grand plan, but in an opportunist way.

Having a SIL working in a hospital and a close friend, it also makes me question it further. I’m not trying to incite drama, it’s an Internet forum for discussion on this very topic.

By all means tell me I’m wrong or an idiot or ridiculous to ask such questions or harbour such cynicism. But we can be polite about it surely?!

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-52812457

This article is something I suggest you and your (intensive care dr in London) Sister should read. It gives a chronological diary of the wave of covid that crashed over North West London back in March. The hospital is a centre for infectious diseases that started off by taking the odd cases from overseas but quickly had to deal with the sudden escalating local community cases.

I don’t understand why we are having restrictions imposed for a virus that is no worse than other illnesses

You don't understand because your premise is wrong. It IS worse than other illnesses. HTH

herecomesthesun has put it well OP.

herecomesthesun yes that does make sense. If the threat is so dreadful then we shouldn’t be going out at all to establishments. Outside for walks, fine. For food, fine. But wining and dining, surely not at all.

I hear what you are saying that this will cause masses of deaths if we don’t lockdown in measures necessary to curtail the spread.

But what about those dying or due to die following lack of treatment? Is that acceptable because overall saving those with Coronavirus will stop plenty more dying in comparison?

titchy how is Coronavirus worse than stage four cancer?