I genuinely don’t get it?!

[Rapphue]

Hopeful for balanced and sincere posts here rather than the assumption that I’m ‘playing ignorance’ or some other accusation because my question undermines the government narrative.

FWIW I’m educated and well read, albeit I don’t have huge in depth knowledge politics, nor do I claim to!

But I don’t understand why we are having restrictions imposed for a virus that is no worse than other illnesses. Even if I accept that it is harmless to the NHS should it escalate fast and make many ill at the same time (so far no hospitals have been maxed out with corona - my SIL works as a hospital doctor in intense care and has said there hasn’t been even 50% corona patients in any ward at one time. She works in a busy London hospital)...even if I accept it could escalate and we don’t want that, then:

1. Why is there suddenly a lack of concern about public health in general? People are dying because they are having treatment postponed due to Coronavirus. Hospitals are not busy and certainly not full of corona patients. It seems crazy to me that anyone who may fall ill non corona related is now at the back of the queue. Tough shit if that ends in your death.

1. Pubs open until 10pm. I use this as one example of many arbitrary rules. Why does the virus suddenly operate after 10pm? Is it a vampire? Surely you can infect just as many people at 9:59pm as you can at 10pm. Is it just to reduce risk overall? If so then I think someone needs to read a gcse science textbook... the risk has already been taken if the pub is open full stop.

1. Cashless society...erm. Why?

I’m not trying to incite some sort of dramatic post. I hope there are honest reasons for operating as we have the last few months. I hope I am wrong to feel cynical. I hope - and suspect - I’m not knowledgeable enough to understand why this is happening how it is.

As far as I can tell this is very much about controlling people’s lives to their detriment. If it was about health why on Earth are we letting people get sick and delaying treatment because of a virus?

Is there something in the London protests yesterday? Am I missing something medical, political or scientific here?

People prefer cashless as cash carries germs.
I don't think it is no worse than any other infectious illness. It has a higher death rate than flu for instance. Only a small percentage of the population have had it so far, so the deaths seen from it so far have only been a small percentage of what they would be for the whole country having it.
As for the curfews, they don't make much sense to me either.

My friend was having treatment for bowel cancer
The hospital stopped her treatment with the lockdown
She died last week
It’s a disgrace

mrssoho I don’t expect you to believe what you read on an Internet forum. Of course I don’t. But given I know it’s true and my SIL is an expert in her field, it is both sad and frustrating that the general public are so brainwashed by the media.

Aside from that, all I posted for was to discuss the policies re Coronavirus. As anticipated, the majority do not care for a discussion where an suggestion may arise that doesn’t completely fit their own ideas.

As for conspiracy theories - I’m not massively into them. But if one was to post on that topic, I certainly wouldn’t criticise them for doing so.

Ok OP - so in what circumstances would you change your position on this? What information would make you change tack?

What do you think the scientists' policies would be though @Rapphue? You haven't said.

pringle I’m so sorry to hear that. It is awful. And unnecessary. Treatments should have continued especially when so many beds were empty over summer following the initial panic.

I think sad to say there are plenty of ways of controlling people's lives without trashing the economy and society as Coronavirus is doing. Nothing they are asking is 'making it easier to control us'. 'Wear a mask as we think it may be one way to slow the spread of this illness' is not a slipperly slope to 'Report your neighbours to the police if you hear them criticising the government!

Many, if not most, people responding to rules still have critical faculties intact and they will remain so. Do I know for a fact that masks are good way to stop the spread? No. But it makes some sense to me, and seems the considerate thing to do to help vulnerable people.

Is it 'No worse than any other virus'? It's too early to say. It has been with us for the less than a year.

The rules are inconsistent and vague because no one knows what they are doing. It has been with us for less than a year. Nothing like this has happened before in the modern world. Also because governments are trying to balance people's health, and the economy - and the latter is not merely a mercinary 'money over people' equation, the economy is people's lives and health as well.

This is still completely novel, the international response has been wildly different, but I don't think anything points to some kind of mass move to tyranny. People obeying the rules are not 'giving into control' or clearly lacking a critical cell in their brain and is doing everything in mindless conformism, people aren't actually black-or-white FREEDOM or CONFORMISM, funnily enough.

I am minded to agree with the op. Schools and uni's should have gone back in early June allowing a little more spread over the summer months and a little more immunity to build up in the younger and less vulnerable populations.

As anticipated, the majority do not care for a discussion where an...

So why post if you anticipated this result from the majority?

There's a lot of not seeing what's not next to you here.

Perhaps you could try to imagine the consequences of mass absence from every workplace, health care collapse, little meaningful schooling and problems with the distribution network instead, is that a bit easier to do?

Completely agree

crunchy I don’t have a position on it. I don’t know enough and I’m not close enough to the detail or scientifically educated. I don’t have an answer for it. I’m simply questioning what is currently in place on the basis that further ideas are slipping in (cashless society indefinitely) and also on the basis that I know two doctors working on intensive care wards - it’s obviously a conversation that comes up a lot in the family. Knowing last week they had a tiny proportion of corona patients on their wards, with empty beds, is of course going raise questions as to why ongoing treatment is STILL on hold. I accept initially it may have been best on balance, but not right now. Yet so it continues.

Is that you DS?

I'd hoped you'd have tired of this narrative by now...

I'm so worried about the fact that a very large proportion of people in the U.K. either won't or can't understand risk mitigation, it's not concerning that someone posts and declares themselves educated but can't understand risk.

And what college did you go to Op that was the same one as BJ? I thought he went to Eton so if that is you DS, then stop telling porkies, you didn't go to Eton.

I don’t know why there is an empty hospital in Liverpool ,yet they built another in London for corona virus victims
Yet both stand empty.
I don’t underStand why all people with corona virus were not treated in these empty hospitals,and people who are ill then continue to have their treatment as normal
I don’t know why my friends treatment had to stop
She’s left behind 2 primary age children..

@Rapphue

mrssoho I don’t expect you to believe what you read on an Internet forum. Of course I don’t. But given I know it’s true and my SIL is an expert in her field, it is both sad and frustrating that the general public are so brainwashed by the media.

Aside from that, all I posted for was to discuss the policies re Coronavirus. As anticipated, the majority do not care for a discussion where an suggestion may arise that doesn’t completely fit their own ideas.

As for conspiracy theories - I’m not massively into them. But if one was to post on that topic, I certainly wouldn’t criticise them for doing so.

I'm not brainwashed by the media. I saw first hand the impact of covid on our local hospital. My friends, family and neighbours worked there throughout and it was very real. My own father was a patient there in January and was re admitted there several times since.

Op if anyone had a different " opinion" to you you say they are brainwashed by the media.

There's nowhere for a conversation to go really at that point, is there?

echo I conform to the policies and restrictions. I’m just questioning it.

@Rapphue you were sure that scientists would dictate different policy than this government - why are you sure and what shape do you think the measures would be?

And treatments have not universally stopped you know - diagnosis and treatment is still happening across the country. I don't know the specifics of the halted treatment you're talking about?

But given I know it’s true and my SIL is an expert in her field, it is both sad and frustrating that the general public are so brainwashed by the media.

An expert in her field you say.....🤣

mrssoho there has been devastation. Yes there has been immense pressure and awful impact on the NHS. But the last few weeks there has not been that pressure. Treatments could have continued. They haven’t.

Ooh, I can tell you why patients weren't treated in the Nightingale hospitals - they didn't have enough staff. It's way easier to repurpose a building than to suddenly correct a decade of underinvestment and understaffing in the NHS - especially in a situation where the health care workers are also getting sick.

Because Covid19 is a new pathogen and we don't yet fully understand it,extreme social distancing is pretty much the only intervention available to help individuals stay healthy. It also allows societies to break the chain of transmission. Breaking the chain gives vulnerable sections of society a fighting chance of surviving this pandemic. It does work to slow the spread and gives the Health Service a fighting chance of nit being overwhelmed.

We need to reduce the reproductive rate. The goal is to keep reproduction rate , or “R,” below one (R

I don't have a degree so I don't consider myself educated, but I can form thoughts all the same.

There is nothing to indicate that there will not be another zoonotic virus in a few years that won't be more fatal than this and I fear we'll have used up people's patience and sense of obligation with this first set of lockdowns.

I know it isn't completely harmless but if we're to exist in a world where income is required to live then we cannot withstand all of these recession and job losses and the depression and the frustration and the missed cancers.

I will sound like a miserable prophet of gloom here but covid 19 has turned out not to be too lethal. I don't want to get it. I will try not to get it. But we should save our energies for the next one which could very well be worse.

dame a lot of diagnostic scans and tests have been postponed. There is a huge huge backlog and a surge in private appointments.

I thought the effect on the NHS was overstated by the media.?

Stop shifting like that. It's odd.