Page 7 | That’s that then. Second lockdown now guaranteed.

RepeatSwan · 22/09/2020 15:15

Sturgeon has said that valance and whitty said Johnson's measures wouldn't do enough.

If sturgeon wants to bring the r rate down, she therefore had to do more.

I guess we all get to see who is right, we are living through a horrible situation. All I know is I don't trust Johnson at all.

TheMostHappy · 22/09/2020 15:17

I do wonder whether closing hospitality venues at 10pm might cause them to be busier as "they close at 10" so people would be less inclined to go out at 9pm than they would ordinarily - it will just compress those people who want to go out in to a shorter period of time in the evenings - unless everywhere implements a booking system perhaps?

I think it's going to do little to help, but I have no other suggestions so 🤷🏼‍♀️

Friendsoftheearth · 22/09/2020 15:19

Socialising outside? It is baltic in Scotland even in the autumn, absolutely freezing in the winter. How is anyone going to socialise for any length of time in mid winter. By forcing such restrictions too soon you risk damaging the mental health and the confidence of the people you are representing. This is for six months don't forget, it is a VERY long time in the middle of the winter.

Hingeandbracket · 22/09/2020 15:19

Because these new measures will NOT reduce the R
R in itself isn't a useful indicator consider the different effects of R in a sample size of 20 vs 20 million.

meeeeeeeeeeee · 22/09/2020 15:19

I really do not think these measures are enough at all.

My area has been under local lockdown for weeks and cases are rising not lowering. There is just no enforcement of the rules. My neighbours are still having mates around, one has another set of friends round today, in her house. She had another group in yesterday. People just do not care.

I am vulnerable and do not leave the house. Mental health is in the pits but what can I do

I really think the Gov should have re-introduced shielding, closed pubs, hairdressers, salon, gyms, etc. Keep schools open for now but keep a close eye on the infection rates.

I think many more people are going to pay with their lives for this Gov's incompetence.

MarshaBradyo · 22/09/2020 15:21

I’m not against keeping socialising indoors as one more step if required, not yet

Agree 6 months is a long time

I think what the last couple of days has been about is signalling change in direction so people will comply with what is there, more than slamming too many restrictions

RepeatSwan · 22/09/2020 15:25

@Friendsoftheearth

Socialising outside? It is baltic in Scotland even in the autumn, absolutely freezing in the winter. How is anyone going to socialise for any length of time in mid winter. By forcing such restrictions too soon you risk damaging the mental health and the confidence of the people you are representing. This is for six months don't forget, it is a VERY long time in the middle of the winter.

I assume Sturgeon's view is this is better than risking a full lockdown in a month's time.

None of the leaders know in advance what will happen, but Johnson does have a lot of form for bad judgment.

I think especially his absolute bullishness about returning to the office - what a waste of time for everyone who was pushed into that.

52andblue · 22/09/2020 15:25

Once again, NS is more sensible in her measures, more statesperson like in their delivery than Johnson and the whole tone is different.
She 'trusts the Scottish people to do what's right' & sounds genuine
whereas BJ drones on about fines and places the blame on the public

This is causing me lots of cognitive dissonance as I loathe the SNP and find NS sharp elbowed at best but she is a far better politician and I believe she is a more responsible leader of her nation atm too.

I noticed her telling us not to book trips at half term, so I do think a 'circuit break' is on the way, in Scotland at least which seems sensible

And I've spent 26 out of the last 30 winters in Scotland, so yes, socializing outside is not fun. But I'd still rather that than a long Spike.

sunseekin · 22/09/2020 15:25

@MoaningMurlock

Because these new measures will NOT reduce the R. Not a chance in hell.

My ‘locked down’ areas cases have continued to rise despite the ‘measures’ in place.

People will just assume things aren’t that bad, otherwise we’d be in lock down. Schools will be a major source of transmission (and save your wishful thinking, we all know what is happening there). People will just cram in to pubs earlier.

We are now guaranteed a second lockdown within the next three/four weeks.

I’m with you sadly 😢 think it was all they could do though, they’ve got to play a slow game after putting so much effort into getting people to spend and believe that Christmas was back on.

I can completely see why they had to manipulate things but it doesn’t make for comfortable watching when you can see it all playing out predictably.

I really hope we are wrong.

RepeatSwan · 22/09/2020 15:28

they’ve got to play a slow game after putting so much effort into getting people to spend and believe that Christmas was back on.

Yes some of what we get now is due to the fact they promised so much six weeks ago like the totally wobbly air bridges.

It would be a hell of a lot easier if they just levelled with people.

chocolatesaltyballs22 · 22/09/2020 15:29

The reason the current measures and these new measures are not working/will not work is that there is still a significant majority of people who refuse to follow them. We can all change things in a small way by doing our bit. Suggest we all stop whinging, follow current laws and guidelines and crack on with things as they are, whilst appreciating the bits of freedom that we DO currently have.

I'm no Boris supporter and agree that a lot of what he's done has been pointless but this government is all we have right now. If we all just throw our toys out the pram and refuse to comply then we're going to be up shit creek for a whole lot longer than 6 months.

allmycats · 22/09/2020 15:30

It's spreading because lots of folk think the rules don't apply to them. My husband does a lot of work on fork lift truck repairs in the North of England and he says that social distancing is not happening and masks are not being worn. People are grouping together to eat and drink in very restricted places within workplaces. He has actually refused to work in some places. These people are then going on the pass on the way home and spreading it. If this is happening in other parts of the country as well there is no wonder it is multiplying.

ceeveebee · 22/09/2020 15:31

@Timeforanotherusername

ceevee you possibly don't realise the rule of 6 in Scotland is 2 households.

Also have you ever spent a winter in Scotland?

So in that case it would have been easier to implement it in England than in Scotland but yet we haven’t? The two households rule will not apply to teenagers from what I understand.

And I’m in greater Manchester, we haven’t been able to mix indoors with anyone for 7 weeks, and it rains a lot here too.

WanderingMilly · 22/09/2020 15:31

I'm one of those who are sick of the whole thing. And as I work in a school (admittedly part-time and not teaching) I presume we'll carry on regardless, so locking down with schools still running won't make the blindest bit of notice. Really....

LivinLaVidaLoki · 22/09/2020 15:32

If like me you have listened to someone who works in the NHS describe to you what a Covid fatality in hospital is like to witness then it does give you a different perspective on this.

As opposed to every other death....

I have watched both of my parents die. Both of them become agitated and frightened, unable to talk or communicate in any real way. Having to wet their lips and balm their pressure points as their bodies stop taking in water or nutrition, helping them to turn while managing their pain and comfort, fighting for every breath knowing it could well be their last. And then it is, and they are gone and it is over.

There is rarely any dignity in dying unfortunately. It is awful and it is frightening. Witnessing the above was horrifying. How is one death "worse" or "more worthy" than another?

ceeveebee · 22/09/2020 15:33

@Friendsoftheearth

Socialising outside? It is baltic in Scotland even in the autumn, absolutely freezing in the winter. How is anyone going to socialise for any length of time in mid winter. By forcing such restrictions too soon you risk damaging the mental health and the confidence of the people you are representing. This is for six months don't forget, it is a VERY long time in the middle of the winter.

Actually she said they would be reviewed in 3 weeks

Southernsoftie76 · 22/09/2020 15:34

Sorry you’ve had a hard time op, I hope you are receiving support for your mental health

For what it’s worth I think you are right. You only have to read posts on here, plenty of posters saying they won’t follow restrictions because of Dominic Cummings etc. Teens that won’t follow the rules, their parents seemingly encouraging it. I really do not want another lockdown so I am following the rules, the people who are flouting the rules will put us in another lockdown. Talk about cut off your nose to spite your face!

Would also like to see shielding return and no fines for shielding parents who want to keep kids home from school.

Autumnsthemostwonderfultime · 22/09/2020 15:39

Moaningmurlock I'm sorry you've had poor mental health during this (haven't we all?)

But you were on here last night saying how you'd be ignoring any restrictions put in place. But then you wonder why they won't make any difference.

cologne4711 · 22/09/2020 15:44

@SockYarn

What would you suggest then, Moaning Myrtle?

A "proper lockdown" like they did in Spain with kids banned from leaving the house for 7 weeks? Perhaps the Army on the street, shooting people who leave the house? Tags on everyone which explode if they venture more than 500 feet from their houses?

Yes that's absolutely what people want. Even though it won't be any more effective at controlling the virus than our lockdown was.

As far as I know the Spanish have far more cases than we do right now - as an absolute, not even related to population size.

Dee1975 · 22/09/2020 15:49

2nd lockdown guaranteed because people are not social distancing. If it was only schools causing the problem we could cope. But people are not listening to the rules elsewhere. So that’s why there will be a second lockdown.

annabel85 · 22/09/2020 15:51

@Quickchange5

Far to many people view the rules we have as something for them to selfishly get round somehow . The problem is the human race sadly

If everyone would socially distance, particularly indoors, and practice good hygiene and near enough follow the rules then we wouldn't have much of a problem given all the restrictions that have been ongoing since March to slow the spread.

Bemyhat · 22/09/2020 15:51

Yay more Mumsnet hysteria.

Just what the world needed

sunseekin · 22/09/2020 15:53

@Dee1975

2nd lockdown guaranteed because people are not social distancing. If it was only schools causing the problem we could cope. But people are not listening to the rules elsewhere. So that’s why there will be a second lockdown.

I see a lot of compliance out and about but I guess I don’t do pubs. Pubs and schools tick all the Valance risk factors - no social distancing, poor ventilation, prolonged periods of time etc.

RepeatSwan · 22/09/2020 15:53

@LivinLaVidaLoki

If like me you have listened to someone who works in the NHS describe to you what a Covid fatality in hospital is like to witness then it does give you a different perspective on this.

As opposed to every other death....

I have watched both of my parents die. Both of them become agitated and frightened, unable to talk or communicate in any real way. Having to wet their lips and balm their pressure points as their bodies stop taking in water or nutrition, helping them to turn while managing their pain and comfort, fighting for every breath knowing it could well be their last. And then it is, and they are gone and it is over.

There is rarely any dignity in dying unfortunately. It is awful and it is frightening. Witnessing the above was horrifying. How is one death "worse" or "more worthy" than another?

I am sorry for your losses

Relatives of those who died from covid said they found it distressing their loved ones died alone, without the care of a relative.

You do describe yourself as being very kind at those final moments.

annabel85 · 22/09/2020 15:54

@allmycats

It's spreading because lots of folk think the rules don't apply to them. My husband does a lot of work on fork lift truck repairs in the North of England and he says that social distancing is not happening and masks are not being worn. People are grouping together to eat and drink in very restricted places within workplaces. He has actually refused to work in some places. These people are then going on the pass on the way home and spreading it. If this is happening in other parts of the country as well there is no wonder it is multiplying.

Social distancing and good hygiene is the key to slowing the spread. The more people that stick to the rules the less the virus can spread from person to person (i.e. April to May when people were taking it seriously).

The government have fucked up over testing, get back to the office and many other things but what these measures do today is put the onus back firmly on the public. Follow the rules or we'll have to lockdown again.