Children have been particularly impacted by this outbreak in Leicester

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

Schools will be closed as Leicester goes into lock down again.

Hancock confirmed on Sky news this morning that children could pass on the virus.

So why do people expect teachers to go back to work in September with no social distancing or PPE?

So many people here say it has to happen but at what risk to school staff? Do people think it's ok to put them at risk?

I don't.

Exactly this. No other workplace ( that I know of anyway) is expecting their employees back without any precautionary measures.

They haven't been getting I'll, just carrying the virus with mild cold like symptoms. 90% of cases in one "community" and locally it's circulating that they are catching it at out of school activities/family functions

It's good news that they're not getting ill, but it refutes the fact that children aren't spreaders of the disease. It's not just about children getting ill, it's about the safety of all people in the school and the families of the children too.

I love the mental gymnastics people go through.

It started as 'children don't get it so it's fine"

Then 'children don't spread it, they can get it, not badly, most of them, but they don't spread it'

Now ' children do get it but not badly and they do spread it, but we still think it's all fine, we're just closing a few schools to be super safe, but your kids are fine at their schools, really it's fine'

Yes it puts a different spin on the idea that sending your kids back to school is totally safe, as we keep getting told.

Safe for who?

Matt Hancock, famous virolosgist, reveals latest research.

Children may generally get mild symptoms, but surely can pass it onto others. At the moment our staff are individually restricted to where they're allowed within the school and different eating areas and with 30 mins break at different times, the only regular contact they physically have is with staff in their bubble. Not allowed to leave school at lunchtime. If they're expected to have full classes in September, then it's only fair to say they can have the freedom to spend their break with whoever or wherever they want, but that means contact with many others.

I don’t understand why teachers can’t wear ppe and distance at the front of the class, surely this should be possible. Not ideal and makes teaching harder but it’s better than risking staff or pupils not going back at all. Even if it means holding back the younger year groups for longer (these are the ones that need closest contact, assistance with toileting, less likely to understand distancing). Again, why the push to get reception back in first, most countries children don’t start school until later anyway, all seems to have been done the wrong way round.

Before when tests were in short supply only the very ill (hospitalised) were tested. So there were not very many confirmed cases in children.
I would expect that now everyone who is symptomatic can get a test, a higher proportion of positive tests would be children. But that doesn't mean they are more affected than before, just that we are teating much more mild and moderate cases.

Children can catch it, if they can catch it they can spread it, it’s not rocket science. If a person has a virus they are Infectious.

Teachers should be given PPE. It’s outrageous that they aren’t. Sorry but little Johnny being a bit frightened by a mask that Miss H is wearing, doesn’t trump Miss H’s right to be as safe as possible. Tough shit - teach your kids not to be so sensitive. I don’t believe that given how common masks are now and how easy it is to explain the facts in a child friendly way, that any child could be truly terrified of a mask like that or visor.

If you have symptoms however mild then you’re ill.

I could never believe that children didn’t spread it much, everything else spreads in schools, colds, stomach bugs, chickenpox, etc, why should Coronavirus be any different?

And you really can’t rely on parents keeping them off if they have possible symptoms.

@groundhogdayzz
The push to get younger children back was all to do with research showing that the disadvantage gap would widen even further and impact more greatly on the younger years. Crucial time for young children learning to read, in particular. Add in the 'childcare' needs of people returning to work to get economy back up and running too.

Secondary teacher. Y10 parent has just removed her child from (part-time return to ) school due to the fact that in and out children will not socially distance. Sent her email to me as tutor. I have passed to LT and am interested in their response. I go into school each week on a rota to support key worker & vulnerable children. Social distancing is impossible. The children can not do it. LT seem to think putting tape around is adequate social distancing measures. They do not see what is happening as they are not around the school, they come in to 'manage' and disappear into an office in reception never to be seen again. I am very glad parent has written this email. I hope more do. School can not return with social distancing in place. I'm not saying we shouldn't go back but it is not and can not be made 'safe'.

Because they'll do what has happened here. Local lockdown in areas with outbreaks.

The alternative is millions of children being out of school, with the knock on effects on parents employment, when many areas have extremely low numbers.

I live in a city of more than half a million. We have had fewer than 800 CV cases and are going days at a time with no new cases.

We have almost 86,000 school aged children. Should we keep them all out of education just in case?

School can not return with social distancing in place. I'm not saying we shouldn't go back but it is not and can not be made 'safe'.

Then it should be with half classes. That would be safer. And children who deliberately flout distancing be sent home.

The school over the road did that with one persistent offender - all deliberate. His parents both work and were not pleased. They were told if he didn't behave he'd be suspended permanently.

Suddenly he kept to the rules,

Isn't the point of local lockdowns that it reduces the risk back to a manageable level again? No one would expect teachers with shielding issues to work inside a classroom during a local lockdown. But, when the fortnight passes and the lockdown has been shown to have succeeded in stopping the escalation of the virus spreading, then logically the risk is tolerable again and it is acceptable to return to the new normal.

If a teacher has been shielding during the major outbreak of the virus, then I would hope any school would work hard to help that teacher maintain social distance from the children - eg if they work with a younger age group , ensure they have appropriate PPE and ensure they have a TA who hasnt had to shield themselves or family who can therefore help with more direct contact with children. But I don't think it is unreasonable for teachers with a low risk profile to go back to working in classrooms.

I imagine that teachers are fairly representative of other people, with some too terrified to go beyond their homes, and others going on BLM marches, to the beach, booking overseas holidays for the summer, planning to meet friends this weekend when the restrictions ease, going to the shops without a mask.

Some people will find taking any risk terrifying and might do everything they can
to avoid risk, others will be casual tothe point of being reckless. Most people are not going to be at these extremes, and really want a balanced, well-managed return to more normal activities.

What about the vulnerable school staff?

Are they expected to come in??

@beryltheperil123 it does make sense in that respect, but week on/week off, or split classes and no wrap around doesn’t help with childcare. The ‘at risk’ so most vulnerable, could have been in school all along, but not many people took up these places, as it wasn’t compulsory. Unfortunately there is a definite correlation between those most disadvantaged and low attendance. I get what your saying, but I still think it would have been better/safer to get more older year groups back in school. Early years should be getting more support from other available services (children’s centres would have been ideal....if only this government hadn’t cut funding them).

What about the vulnerable school staff? Are they expected to come in??

There will not be enough teachers if they don’t.

*Then it should be with half classes. That would be safer. And children who deliberately flout distancing be sent home.

The school over the road did that with one persistent offender - all deliberate. His parents both work and were not pleased. They were told if he didn't behave he'd be suspended permanently.

Suddenly he kept to the rules,*

Your school is doing the right thing. Not all are and they won't. My school is very desirable & successful, but are not strong with discipline. we have been told to 'encourage' and 'model' social distancing. Half classes means students in school half of the time - many parents will not be happy with this. Issue for Y10 and 12 next year. My main concern in all of this is staffing. I remember the staffing situation before lockdown - it was crazy and intolerable, we were 'teaching' groups of 60 in a classroom and groups of 90 in open spaces due to staff being off. This will happen again.

When he said impacted, Hancock meant re schooling, but it's clear children can spread the disease, while having no or minimal symptoms.

Basically we are all stuffed. Schools can't socially distance. Maybe teachers should have full PPE and just accept that?

Sorry - the bold didn't work

Yes this is the safety plan - testing localised shutdowns starting with schools themselves for 2 weeks (one near us will reopen soon after shutting down after a catering staff member tested positive) and then more widespread local community lockdowns like Leicester

I wonder how mild these 'mild symptoms' are. My DSis's SIL & family had it (the parents are teachers and DCs at school). None of them were hospitalised, but the DCs were really ill, in bed or on the sofa for almost 2 weeks, lost a lot of weight. It was the worst ilnees the DCs had ever had.

Small children don't have much weight to lose. My DC3 is skinny already.