Children have been particularly impacted by this outbreak in Leicester

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

Schools will be closed as Leicester goes into lock down again.

Hancock confirmed on Sky news this morning that children could pass on the virus.

So why do people expect teachers to go back to work in September with no social distancing or PPE?

So many people here say it has to happen but at what risk to school staff? Do people think it's ok to put them at risk?

I don't.

But @keepthedistance these figures are from when things WERE bad in Scotland. Glasgow had high levels of Covid, as did other large cities. Keyworker children are the kids of nurses, carers, bus drivers, supermarket workers - the very people who you'd think most at risk as they're out and about and not working at home.

And not one case.

I just don't think we can keep schools closed or have part time schooling because of "outbreaks"

Nobody will learn anything until there's a vaccine at this rate.

I don't like that the goal posts have been moved. I was happy to protect the NHS. I'm not happy to live like this until there's a vaccine. I'm not happy to do this for the tiny tiny benefit it will actually have.

It’s 1/1700 of the population, not 1/1700 of the people well enough to be going to school! (And it’s falling.) A big proportion of those 1/1700 will either be in hospital, in a care home, at home too ill to go out, at home because they feel a bit ill and are being responsible, at home isolating because of a sick household member or at home because track and trace told them to be. It’s not 1/1700 of people in Tesco or at school.

And so? I live in a city considerably smaller than Glasgow and we've had four primary schools with outbreaks, during the first week they opened to Yr 1/6.

My sister in Australia's children have been in and out of school like yoyos every time the r rate goes back up (they lifted restrictions really quickly in their area and kept having to reimpose them).

Widespread mask wearing reduces the chance of dying by 70% according to this study.

www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3090440/coronavirus-face-masks-save-lives-japanese-study-says

Teachers are disposable, so no masks for us.....

People are also conveniently forgetting that catching Covid from one person after a fleeting encounter is not the same as being exposed to it all day long in a closed room with lots of children. Viral load really matters in how badly you get it.

They are expecting local peaks though - lockdown was designed to enable the GOvernment to be able to manage the process and I think it has - the local peaks since schools have gone back havent led to things overall changing and local peaks with local shutdowns are to be expected

TEachers should be allowed to wear masks and then everyone needs to weigh up personal risk

It's important to look at actual data here for proper risk assessment. Look at age/sex pyramids and you will see for yourselves that less children catch this disease, if they don't have it then they can't spread it. That's not just in the UK but similar models all over the world. Then look at cases for your own local area; the majority have

I don’t think the infections have come from schools

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/30/some-leicester-factories-stayed-open-and-forced-staff-to-come-in

From the article:

Analysis of data collected by local health bodies shows that many of those infected recently have been young men aged 20 to 40, often from an Asian background, many of them working in textiles and food.

So kids can spread it, and are affected by it (both of which we were told wasn't possible) and they are going back to school in September regardless, WITHOUT social distancing!?
Bonkers.

We were never told they cant spread it or be affected by it just that they were not seriously affected by it

We were never told they cant spread it or be affected by it just that they were not seriously affected by it

Yes. Also that it was hard to ascertain re spreading. Chris Whitty (and others) didn’t confirm on spreading.

A few studies have shown inconclusive overall indication.

I haven’t heard all of it, but that was what I thought.

we still dont know whether they spread it, them having it proves nothing. It could be just adults giving it to them. We have legitimately no idea whether they can spread it or not, theres studies saying they can, theres studies saying they cant.

the problem is that hancock has opened his mouth about an issue that, lets be honest, he knows fuck all about.

Saying that children have been affected by this means nothing really does it?

it could mean that more children than they'd expect have caught it, it could mean that they have been more ill than your average child who catches it, it could mean they are spreading it, it could mean that theyre dropping dead in the street.

Id say the most likely option is that quite a few have tested positive, they might be asymptomatic but because theyve been tested numbers seem higher, as usually its only people with obvious symptoms who are tested.

...both of which we were told wasn't possible...

No, this is not what we have been told.

All the research so far shows that (1) children are much less likely to have severe cases of COVID and (2) they are less likely to transmit the disease. It does not mean the risk is zero (in other words, some children might infect adults and other children) but children to adult transmissions appear to be relatively infrequent.

As an example, here is the most recent study (there are quite a few others which result in the same conclusion):

academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa794/5862649

Children "impacted by COVID in Leicester" might have been infected by their parents working in textile and food industries. We really need more data before jumping to conclusions.

considering factories have been where most of the big problems have started id put my money on that!

Do you still have to have symptoms to get tested?

Or are they testing asymptomatic contacts? (they should be, but who knows, they told us they were giving us the full numbers and that's not true.)

And what's the criteria for a "contact?"

They should be testing while workplaces/schools - but are they?

After 5 months of one failure and lie after another I don't have any faith that they are doing what's needed and testing enough to find the cases. Especially the asymptomatic ones.

And we all know what "only 140 detected cases" turns into in a few weeks.

And the government let this outbreak run for 11 days after they found it.

Based on past and current performance in this pandemic, I have no faith in them at all.

@ChavvySexPond

Do you still have to have symptoms to get tested?

Or are they testing asymptomatic contacts? (they should be, but who knows, they told us they were giving us the full numbers and that's not true.)

And what's the criteria for a "contact?"

They should be testing while workplaces/schools - but are they?

After 5 months of one failure and lie after another I don't have any faith that they are doing what's needed and testing enough to find the cases. Especially the asymptomatic ones.

And we all know what "only 140 detected cases" turns into in a few weeks.

And the government let this outbreak run for 11 days after they found it.

Based on past and current performance in this pandemic, I have no faith in them at all.

I believe you do have to have symptoms to get tested, although i think the ONS (maybe? might be wrong someone anyway!) is sending out random tests and obviously these people wont have symptoms. But to request a test, yes you need symptoms.

I dont believe they are testing contacts, unless that contact then gets symptoms and they then request a test. IMO they should be testing the contacts as a matter of course, however there's arguments about how long the incubation period is and whether testing would be reliable in these circumstances.

The only way to find all the asymptomatic cases would be to repeatedly test every single person in the country, which is obviously nigh on impossible.

I dont have any faith in the government either, but i dont want to be locked up for their failures. It isnt worth it any more.

Also, some children may have been infected by factory working parents. But then they took it to school.

We know that prolonged contact indoors with the same people is a virus spreading situation. But surely that's factories AND schools?

Does anyone else feel as if they've been having the same discussion for MONTHS.

@ChavvySexPond

Also, some children may have been infected by factory working parents. But then they took it to school.

We know that prolonged contact indoors with the same people is a virus spreading situation. But surely that's factories AND schools?

We have no idea whether they passed it on to anyone at school though do we?

We don't know whether children catch it and pass it on at the same rate as adults, and no, factories are not the same as schools. Presumably you've never seen the inside of a sweat shop but it won't be a safe place in any respect of the word.

If it was a choice between spending my time in a school or a factory I know which id choose.

Through this, there have been SEN schools which have remained open, albeit at a reduced capacity as parents have chosen not to send their children. My husband is a primary school SEN reacher in London. There’s no social distancing with these little ones and no real PPE - gloves as usual for changing nappies and other continence wear. There haven’t been any major outbreaks in any of 6 or 7 schools in his consortium. To his knowledge, there haven’t been any issues in any schools and he has many contacts. I’m aware this is anecdotal but it’s interesting and suggestive it’s not necessarily a given that Covid will be a problem. There is far more close contact and personal care in these environments too.

@TrustTheGeneGenie
The only way to find all the asymptomatic cases would be to repeatedly test every single person in the country, which is obviously nigh on impossible

They should be tracing and testing ALL the contacts of infected people though. That's how you break the chains of transmission isn't it? That's basic public health. The clap clinic do it for Chlamydia.

You only have to have lockdowns off you let your infection spread so much that you don't have the capacity to test trace and isolate the bejesus out of it.

We should be screaming our Mumsnet heads off for a fit for purpose Test Trace and Isolate system. That's how we get our kids back to school, get some semblance of normal life back, and prevent future lockdowns.

Schulyer interesting

The chart shows such overall prevalence for cases in Leicester that children will be at a higher rate. To what extent I don’t know.

MH made his statement re children can spread it, what was he basing it on?

[quote ChavvySexPond]@TrustTheGeneGenie
The only way to find all the asymptomatic cases would be to repeatedly test every single person in the country, which is obviously nigh on impossible

They should be tracing and testing ALL the contacts of infected people though. That's how you break the chains of transmission isn't it? That's basic public health. The clap clinic do it for Chlamydia.

You only have to have lockdowns off you let your infection spread so much that you don't have the capacity to test trace and isolate the bejesus out of it.

We should be screaming our Mumsnet heads off for a fit for purpose Test Trace and Isolate system. That's how we get our kids back to school, get some semblance of normal life back, and prevent future lockdowns. [/quote]
Yes, I've already said I agree with that but the issue is the incubation period isn't it? To soon you might get a false negative, too late and it's pointless. I don't know what the solution to that is.

I agree we need a better track and trace system, local lockdowns wont work. If people caught this through non compliance why will they suddenly comply now? They won't.

Somebody needs to come up with a solution to this, because what they've come up with so far is utter bullshit.