Children have been particularly impacted by this outbreak in Leicester

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

Schools will be closed as Leicester goes into lock down again.

Hancock confirmed on Sky news this morning that children could pass on the virus.

So why do people expect teachers to go back to work in September with no social distancing or PPE?

So many people here say it has to happen but at what risk to school staff? Do people think it's ok to put them at risk?

I don't.

It doesn't need to be anecdotal @Schuyler; I posted the actual age/sex pyramids showing what a tiny proportion of children get infected, someone else posted what a tiny number of school outbreaks there have been (out of 38,000 schools), someone else posted a research report on spread. But some posters simply refuse to look and take into account real figures, they prefer to keep repeating that it isn't safe instead of understanding that the risk is extremely low (not zero) and that actually people need to accept low risk (not even medium risk like Leicester, just accept low risk).

@Schuyler

I take your point, and truth very often is found in the anecdotal, I never dismiss it but there are prisons, factories and care homes that haven't had detected outbreaks yet either.

We should definitely look to see if they're doing anything differently to all the prisons, factories, and care homes that have had outbreaks.

But because we're not doing TTI properly we don't have good local info.

It may just be that we're still in the early stages of this epidemic and it hasn't reached those SEN schools, prisons, factories, and care homes yet. Not that schools, prisons, factories, and care homes are pretty covid safe environments.

@TrustTheGeneGenie Matt Hancock is a liability - he shoots his mouth off repeatedly in this giving out facts without context or making throwaway statements without any scientific grounding.

This is at least the 3rd time he has said something off the cuff he doesnt really know whether or not it is true without thinking about the consequences of it.

That said it does seem to be a worldwide trend that it is affecting the younger population without being quite so serious

I agree Quartz and was thinking just that.

Afaik the scientific position hasn’t changed re children spreading and to revise it so blithely via his statement is a mistake. He could have said as we still do not know if they do we will close schools. That would be in line with Whitty and all previous statements.

The risk factor re illness is covered in a much bigger scale. Excellent risk professor on More or Less R4 stating age biggest factor. Will miss that programme, sad it’s ended.

Schuyler

I teach in an sen school and we've avoided it.

The key thing is that due to higher pupil to staffing ratios and also smaller class sizes, bubbles have been tiny. During the actual peak staff were on 2-3 week rotas. So they had the ability to self isolate for 1-2 weeks in between, back up staff were available as needed.

Sen schools were required to attempt to get all children back in this term how ever they could manage it safely. this has resulted in different approaches but still always much lower groups, clearly organised staffing within bubbles and very rigorous cleaning regimes. The school day has often been made shorter to accommodate the cleaning in particular.

We are actually better set up for hygiene as it's obviously an identified issue in sen schools anyway; we are part care setting and have access to low level ppe if needed for changing anyway.

To me, numbers, space, hygiene and staffing are our key to that. There's been no SD as it's impossible and I wouldn't want to with our pupils.

A lot of work has gone into how everyone moves around the school and when so bubbles are entirely isolated. Again, easier with very low numbers. Iirc around 3-5 pupils max.

Bristol schools had cases about a month ago. Including a sen school.
The ons data from random testing consistently showed the rate of infection in young children was the the same as adults. They are not as ull so not tested.

I expect even a sweat shop would let people wear their own masks.

The ons data from random testing consistently showed the rate of infection in young children was the the same as adults. They are not as ull so not tested.

That is still consistent with children not getting as ill from it as has always been says, and doesn’t conclude whether they spread it at the same rate as adults or not.

It is the teachers and shielding dc more at risk so it makes sense to try to separate via PPE.

@MRex I can't trust any of the numbers you quote when I know they are not testing or tracing adequately. It's Trumpian to suggest a low number means anything other than low testing in such circumstances.

Teacher tapp today:

Spare a thought for the early years workforce. We have been back a month, only have the gloves and aprons we use for changing plus masks when interacting with parents, and obviously cannot do social distancing. We do the best we can and accept the level of risk.

Cleaners in my school and IT staff in my school are wearing masks.

IT staff @ohthegoats?

How big are the ey bubbles? 8-15?
I think all staff where SD isn't possible should wear masks/visor.
I see though that with some young dc they would constantly try to grab at it.

My dc hands got sore in march she was washing them herself and putting soap on the back. Looked like eczema. Maybe due to time of year. Most interventions have unintended consequences.
Visors are pretty risk free i guess, maybe ineffective.

Noone is really going to want a child or adult with a cough (or temp) in school. But coughs take months to go in kids. If we can even reduce normal cold/flu it might save lots of worry and wasted tests, people only getting SSP.
Every time one of 4+ family members gets these 2 symptoms it's isolate till a test that could be really frequent. Think of the people with kids with ear imfections/utis etc.
And i get a cough with every single cold as do the kids.
Realistically noone with kids will be at work...
Nhs staff who havent had it yet or maybe wont matter also wont be in work.
They will run out of tests.

An additional issue will be that when normal coughs and colds get going, we are going to not be that keen to have them back in even if it's not COVID, as it'll spread to others (and staff) who will then need time off for tests etc.

The issue in March was that schools were closing due to lack of staff self isolating. At least we have tests now but tests will need to be available within a couple of miles of all schools.

Article in BBC this morning suggests that, although they have no clear source for the outbreak, the rise in infections in under-19s suggests they are "looking more carefully" at whether school opening was a main factor.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53257835

I thought it was factories that started the outbreak

No, no clear source. I think it was investigated too late to say for sure.

One member of staff had it before lockdown at my child's sen school which is also residential and has been open throughout. I think it is less likely to spread in his school than mainstream schools because the bubbles are small and it is easier to keep the bubbles apart as all of the children always have a member of staff with them, don't travel on public transport etc. Our children don't tend to mix much with others outside of school, staff have been told to strictly observe social distancing and hygiene rules outside of school and all the parents that I know are being careful because of the difficulties a parent or child becoming ill, having to try to do the test or just having to self isolate would create.

We don't know the long term effects either.

We don’t yet know the long term effects of any of it but it is going to have significant medium term effects on a lot of things