Children have been particularly impacted by this outbreak in Leicester

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

Schools will be closed as Leicester goes into lock down again.

Hancock confirmed on Sky news this morning that children could pass on the virus.

So why do people expect teachers to go back to work in September with no social distancing or PPE?

So many people here say it has to happen but at what risk to school staff? Do people think it's ok to put them at risk?

I don't.

@Triangularbubble

I didn’t use the word infinitesimal. But given the current prevalence, in my part of England at least, the risk of the teacher catching it is extremely low, much less dying from it.

‘My part of England’ isn’t going to work in the coming months. Unless you’re planning to seal it off. All it takes is someone infected having a meal at a pub there and the rates can rise within a fortnight.

Then shut it down again. But so far it’s low and been low for months. Plenty of other countries have maintained low rates even with localised outbreaks.

@Triangularbubble

Where is this ppe you want coming from? We only just managed to supply the nhs? I have no problem with a teacher wearing a full on spacesuit if they want I just don’t see where they could get sufficient ppe from.

I’m not saying full PPE but they can certainly arrange a manufacturing contract to manufacture visors for teachers: if there was sufficient political will.

Cloth masks for students are readily affordable for a fiver. Other schools in Europe supplied all pupils with two each but I’m not suggesting we go that far. We generally don’t have the will to spend any money on schools here.

German research had been showing all along that children can spread it:
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/30/coronavirus-scientists-caution-against-reopening-schools

Exactly how much protection is a visor with no other ppe? But fine, as I said, I am very relaxed about what teachers wear. But I’m not making my small child wear a mask all day at school, affordable or not - plenty of adults would struggle with that.

@ohthegoats if you would like a visor, get one. I know several people in various professions who have sourced there own face masks and visors, one of them is a teacher and wears it in school. Our sister school abroad has photos of teachers wearing visors with face masks. Why would it be impossible for you? Physios, speech therapists, others in children’s services wear face masks. Not ideal for giving instructions, but better than just not even trying.

@FizzFan

Schools were all open as normal when the virus was allegedly rife

Numbers are right down, it must b considerably less unsafe than March when they were open as normal. Time to get the schools open , full time, no SD as kids don’t do it anyway, and get the fuck on with it.

And to hell with the staff? You really think they should risk getting the virus?

I hope the unions clamp down on such stupidity. Social distancing, part time schooling and PPE for teachers and other staff. They have as much right as anyone else to be protected. I can't believe anyone would think otherwise.

Theyve got months they could make some. (3d printers made visors for nhs by the tech depts).

Visors are a few ££
The gov is giving an addtional 60k per nhs who dies... With 100 + already.

I just saw a fb long haulers 10yo now with asthma after covid.

Other countries are managing kids in masks. And older kids need them on PT anyway... Maybe year hroups that cant manage them should be part time to half the classess. (I can guarantee you'd all be getting them wearing them then).

The gov will get hugely sued as they are not following a duty of care to their staff. (And they didnt for nhs either or care home staff where one 28yo died leaving a 4yo).

It's not really about what the rates are now or in sept. If we abandon SD it will grow at 3 rather than under 1. Then all the schools will be shut and it will be the fault of those who couldnt be bothered about protecting anyone.

I would happily have my children at school part time in a small class, permanently. Until high school anyway. They’d probably learn as much, it would really suit them and I don’t need childcare. Unfortunately that’s not a choice I’m offered.

And if it’s so easy to have children wearing masks why are teachers always saying how hard it is to maintain discipline? Why are small children allowed to pick their nose, chew their pencil and touch other children? Why are secondary children licking library books and deliberately coughing on people?! These same children are going to wear masks, change and wash them regularly and remember them each day are they?

Guardian sums it up

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/30/boris-johnson-teaching-unions-closed-schools-teachers-children?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2TqTB7q0dJJV9a8ks5BYX0G95hTAmUf8FpmGuG5ZTSYAODhn8NurbXZBg#Echobox=1593510381

Age is more important than health conditions yet 40-68yo will be in the classroom. And some secondary parents too.

Not just secondary. Plenty of primary parents, especially those who established careers etc before having children, did not start having kids until mid or even late 30s and beyond. The vast majority of dd’s classmates (primary school) parents are 45+.

What's your suggested solution OP?

Evidence suggests that child to adult transmission is very uncommon. I hope that this offers some reassurance to teachers and their families who are forced back to work and concerned. That isn't to say I think it's right, but it should be highlighted that the risk of transmission appears low.

The mixed messaging on this doesn't inspire confidence. If schools are shutting due to numbers of kids getting it and they are spreaders then why are schools opening without precautions in September? We need the problem around schools sorting. Just saying go back to normal without any other guidance and help isn't good enough.

I don't mean to sound shitty and I completely understand people's anxieties around Covid (I'm one of them), but....

... Surely everyone's arguments on here are null and void. The schools were not shut down to stop people getting it. Lockdown didn't happen to stop people getting it. Shielders were told to shield because there was a fear that as the most at risk the NHS wouldn't be able to treat them... It was not to stop them from ever getting it.

Schools were shut and lockdown happened to flatten the curve and not overwhelm the NHS. This happened.

Yes, everyone does and should have an opinion but ultimately at the end of the day schools will be reopening, risk or not. 🤷‍♀️

@Keepdistance is right.
There is the issue of why restrictions are being relaxed while there are still quite high levels of infections compared to other countries, instead of using all the time before September to get the infection numbers very low so that the risks are much lower in September for schools. But as it stands, we are being encouraged to get out and spend, travel abroad, socialise, go out, and the infection numbers will still be just the same in September, if not higher. Such a shame for our children who would have a better chance of normal education in September if the government would prioritise education by getting infection numbers down.

Also once again we need to not be so insular in this country. Look at other countries and learn. In other countries masks are normal in schools for all now. Even countries with much lower numbers of covid than us.

There is also the issue of what age 'children' are in the research? Schools in this country have pupils right up to 18 years old - basically adults. When the media talk about children they show images of primary school aged children. But surely GCSE and A'level children are older, some of them would be classed adults in some circumstances 16+. So they might be at higher risk than a primary school child, but equally they may be much better able to understand and adhere to social distancing, mask wearing etc. (at least in school). Perhaps a different approach to older students is required? It seems daft to determine the education of an A'level pupil aged 16-18 based on the risks for young children and their issues with masks etc. Older kids may also not be so upset by their teacher in a mask. I also don't understand how the bubble system would work at A'level when each pupil choses 3-4 subjects only, and none of them need be 'core' subjects so the pupils could not be taught in bubbles.

@Redwinestillfine

The mixed messaging on this doesn't inspire confidence. If schools are shutting due to numbers of kids getting it and they are spreaders then why are schools opening without precautions in September? We need the problem around schools sorting. Just saying go back to normal without any other guidance and help isn't good enough.

they're not reopening without precautions, though are they?

this is not "back to normal" ffs.

Wouldn't it have been nice if the government hadn't just let it spread all those months?

I can't see how a constant stop start of opening and closing can be good for children's education, the economy, or anything really.

Aren't the teachers all going to be constantly off sick if there's only 1m distance at the front and all the kids breathing coughing shouting etc is facing that way?

Nothing's going to work until they get community contact tracing up and running properly and get the virus under control is it?

So what? The kids go back at New Year?

Aren't the teachers all going to be constantly off sick if there's only 1m distance at the front and all the kids breathing coughing shouting etc is facing that way?

Well you can only give corona to someone else if youve actually got it so, i'd say its pretty unlikely considering something like 1 in 1700 people actually have it.

@Chavvysexpond is right. The government was reluctant to introduce lockdown in the UK, so the infection spread and numbers were very high. Lockdown worked in so far as the numbers have fallen significantly. Unfortunately, the high levels that still exist mean that lockdown should have continued a little longer until infection numbers were so low that schools could operate properly, with the precautionary measure of all pupils and teachers wearing a mask, even a soft fabric home-made version.
I can't see how September is going to be possible with out the stop-start open/close disruptions with the government not aiming to drive down infections any further in the 2 months we still until September. Unfortunately, the relaxation of restrictions means September will have more infections than now.

Trust - how is it not 'back to normal'?

The main way we've been told to stop this virus spreading is through:

Staying 2m apart (not happening)

Where this isn't possible -staying 1m apart but wearing face coverings (not happening)

Limiting time of contact (not happening - school day is the same length, probably longer once catch up sessions start in earnest)

Limiting number of contacts (not happening as class sizes are staying the same, there's a nod towards keeping a bubble of a year group but that's such a massive bubble that it's essentially meaningless)

Stand sideways rather than face to face (only happening for the low-risk of being seriously affected students, but they're all told to face the front so any virus they're shedding will all be directed towards the front where the not-so-low risk teacher is)

Handwashing (no sinks in the classroom so can't be done regularly enough, schools might supply each classroom with sanitiser if we're really lucky)

What meaningful protections have been put in place for the safety of staff and pupils?

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Aren't the teachers all going to be constantly off sick if there's only 1m distance at the front and all the kids breathing coughing shouting etc is facing that way?

Well you can only give corona to someone else if youve actually got it so, i'd say its pretty unlikely considering something like 1 in 1700 people actually have it.

I wouldn't waste your (germy) breath, the posters who believe that all children are dirty, germ ridden, super spreading vectors and that a classroom will be the equivalent of a covid ward will not change their views.

Well you can only give corona to someone else if youve actually got it so, i'd say its pretty unlikely considering something like 1 in 1700 people actually have it.

At one point only 1 in 66 million had it but now here we are.

I think it is totally ridiculous that adults are allowed to now do pretty much as they please - shop, sports, pub, theme parks and attractions - potentially coming into contact with hundreds of other people throughout their week through work and out and about yet children are being expected to be confined to bubbles of the same children day in day out indefinately, no clubs like brownies etc outside of school becuase that would mean mixing of the school bubbles, all because people seem to think that coming into contact with a child will kill off the entire adult population. Yes children spread the virus, in exactly the same way as adults do, so why is it children that are having all their freedoms curbed indefinatley.

I wouldn't waste your (germy) breath, the posters who believe that all children are dirty, germ ridden, super spreading vectors and that a classroom will be the equivalent of a covid ward will not change their views.

Children have the potential to a) catch it and b) pass it on. That's reality.