Children have been particularly impacted by this outbreak in Leicester

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

Schools will be closed as Leicester goes into lock down again.

Hancock confirmed on Sky news this morning that children could pass on the virus.

So why do people expect teachers to go back to work in September with no social distancing or PPE?

So many people here say it has to happen but at what risk to school staff? Do people think it's ok to put them at risk?

I don't.

In answer to people asking if vulnerable staff but not shielding should come in. In nursing and midwifery our vulnerable staff without shielding letters have to take time off unpaid. Some are still off unpaid as cannot work from home. Some who had vulnerable families or if couldn't afford this, moved out away from their families so they could continue to work. There are ways around continuing to work and play a really important part in getting the world back on its feet and getting the children back to school. I agree teachers should be offered to wear masks or face shields if it makes them feel safer. Even though it mainly protects others not themselves.

Woodlands01 your right, I'm in one day a week with year 10's and while they are all sat at desks it's fine. But they can't even line up 2m appart with tape on the floor. They gravitate together.

My healthy 14 yr old had it ‘mildly’ and was ill as hell. Non stop ibuprofen and paracetamol for 14 days and didn’t eat anything for 15 days, just slept and cried because his throat was agony. He was nearly hospitalised on day 10 due to his heartbeat being so fast. His eyes were bright red, they were so bloodshot.
We did the test at day 11 but it came back negative however DH also had the same symptoms and developed Covid fingers so we definitely think they had it. DH is on week 5 and still wiped out. Anyone who thinks that not dying = being fine needs their head looking at.

Schools were all open as normal when the virus was allegedly rife

Numbers are right down, it must b considerably less unsafe than March when they were open as normal. Time to get the schools open , full time, no SD as kids don’t do it anyway, and get the fuck on with it.

@Groundhogdayzz I am a primary teacher and there is no way you can distance at the front of a class from lower primary children. There is no way a class of 30 4 and 5 year olds would stay in their seat all day either, nor should they be expected to either in my opinion

They really do need to investigate this thoroughly, and explain clearly what was found.

And do so before the planned mass returns in September (only a month or so before the virus season, though I guess it's more convenient to give DC their flu sniff in school, and they will want high uptake this year)

I'm guessing that children are a disease vector. Barely affected themselves, they can still pass it round.

And that they don't form an immune response, so can catch it more than once (and pass it round again) . Then one day, probably in their teens, they get it symptomatically. And we still don't know if that gives lasting immunity either

@worzelsnurzel123

Teachers should be given PPE. It’s outrageous that they aren’t. Sorry but little Johnny being a bit frightened by a mask that Miss H is wearing, doesn’t trump Miss H’s right to be as safe as possible. Tough shit - teach your kids not to be so sensitive. I don’t believe that given how common masks are now and how easy it is to explain the facts in a child friendly way, that any child could be truly terrified of a mask like that or visor.

Miss H can wear a mask if she likes, but I hope she knows that it protects my child from her, not the other way around.

My view is that the long term damage to children caused by the inevitable weight gain and lack of fitness from being at home for such a long period is going to far outweigh the risks of covid. And the mental health ramifications are also going to be huge.

@Jrobhatch29 agreed, that’s why I thought it would be more sensible to bring older year groups back first.

@PinkFondantFancy - miss H should be issued with FP2 masks that help prevent spread both ways. Also visors should be available to stop snotty sneezes from little ones infecting Miss H.

I don’t understand why teachers can’t wear ppe and distance at the front of the class, surely this should be possible.

Not ideal and makes teaching harder

Makes teaching impossible. You can't do 'chalk and talk' with primary school children.

I'd like a visor, I'd like fewer than 30 kids in the room at any one time. In an ideal world. A child literally coughed a blob of phlegm into my mouth back in February.

Evrtyone in an enclosed space should have a mask on
So that is supermarkets and shops

Children and teachers at school.

Not sure about preschool but the staff should wear them. It is not compulsory nor academically necessary so parents most concerned can keep them home.

If you want kids back at school that is the only reasonable solution.

Asymptomatic kids also have ground glass lungs. If they keep catching it who is to say the lung damage they could have.

Age is more important than health conditions yet 40-68yo will be in the classroom. And some secondary parents too.

If you are young and female you may get it mildly but that likely means no antibodies so you will keep getting it

@ohthegoats - that’s horrific. Yes you should get the PPE you need. All paid for by tax not at the personal cost of teachers. Unlike the accounts I’ve heard of teachers having to buy ridiculous amounts of equipment for kids out of their own pocket. Education needs to be way better funded, bureaucracy and time wasting admin removed.

Education needs to be way better funded

Yep, and everything needs to happen more quickly.

The laptops given to the most disadvantaged? Deadline was today. I don't know any school that has them.

Simple cloth masks don’t offer much protection to the wearer, yes. But surgical masks offer about 70% filtration. Visors are reasonably effective.

This is all better than nothing. You’d think it’d be in the parents’ interest for their child’s teacher not to end up in hospital or off for three months with chronic fatigue.

You want my 5 year old to wear a mask at school. How many children do you know? Teacher would spend all day every day telling them to put it on, stop fiddling with it, stop chewing it, put it over both nose and mouth, yes it’s hot and uncomfortable but you have to.... would be a total non starter. He might wear it for a twenty minute bus ride with focused parental attention, in a class of 30 at school, no chance. Also where’s all this ppe coming from? And who’s buying it? Washing it? Half the parents at our school are incapable of sending their child in correct uniforms, they’re really not going to supply several clean masks per day! Where’s the visors for every teacher coming from?! Totally absurd suggestion.

It’s the school bus drivers, the cleaners, TA’s, office staff and Teachers that will be catching it from the kids.
The kids then taking it home.
I don’t know why the real experiences of children who have had the virus are being ignored too. I know 2 teenagers who were seriously ill with it, one had been moments from being admitted to hospital. Both lost lots of weight and are severely fatigued.

Matt Hancock said roughly 135 people per 100000 have CV in Leicester at the moment in a population of 330000 and 10% of all the cases.

Shutting it down now will prevent exponential growth it is the safety mechanism. 2-3 weeks at home quarantined should identify those who have it and make it safe to reopen.

Leicester very much is the experiment now to see whether it works for September

@Triangularbubble

You want my 5 year old to wear a mask at school. How many children do you know? Teacher would spend all day every day telling them to put it on, stop fiddling with it, stop chewing it, put it over both nose and mouth, yes it’s hot and uncomfortable but you have to.... would be a total non starter. He might wear it for a twenty minute bus ride with focused parental attention, in a class of 30 at school, no chance. Also where’s all this ppe coming from? And who’s buying it? Washing it? Half the parents at our school are incapable of sending their child in correct uniforms, they’re really not going to supply several clean masks per day! Where’s the visors for every teacher coming from?! Totally absurd suggestion.

Hysterical English exceptionalism at its finest. Because none of this is currently happening in any other country right? Do you think students in France and Germany are aliens?

In any case, I’m not convinced by masks for primary students, but there is no reason why secondary school pupils couldn’t wear them, as they do in France.

As a minimum, the government should provide visors for teachers. They managed to build the Nightingale hospitals in record number of days.

And it’ll be cheaper than trying to replace a teacher who’s off sick for three months. Or is dead.

Yet the teacher being dead isn’t at all hysterical.

I think there might be a way forward with this that would work, but would require £££ to be spent.
If children are being taught in groups of 15 then there is potential for them to make better progress as they have more individual attention.
I think in primary schools, children should be in Monday Tuesday or Thursday Friday with Wednesday for deep clean and Teacher prep time. Students are given work to do on days they aren't in (could be computer and/or paper based depending on needs of students and access to computers etc). This remote learning takes place at home if possible. For parents who need childcare in order to work, we rapid build childcare centres. Children can attend these to do their remote work supported by carers/play workers and also do other crafts/sports/ etc. I know this means children are in 2 separate bubbles but it is still better from an infection point of view than all in together in crowded schools as normal.
In secondary schools, a similar approach could be undertaken but with students in every other week and doing remote learning/consolidation in the "off" week. That way they still get access to the full curriculum. For those students who can't or won't work at home, they could have access to learning centres, similar to childcare centres where they can use computers and get support with learning in small bubbles. I know this would still mean secondary teachers being exposed to lots of students, but in smaller groups they are more spread apart and there is more room for social distancing.
This would require major funds but actually I could see students benefiting from the smaller group sizes and also learning how to manage independent work/study. They might actually learn better like this!

@Triangularbubble

Yet the teacher being dead isn’t at all hysterical.

It’s really not. IFR is about 1.3%. How is that infinitesimal?

Hospitalization for the 50s is 8%. Recovery from that can take many months.

The only people we know who’ve had Covid are some of my son’s classmates, so I presume school is where he caught it before passing it onto me and a sibling. He is still unwell 15 weeks later. This seems to be unusual in a previously very healthy boy of his age (12), but the idea that children don’t spread it has seemed very strange to be from the start.

I didn’t use the word infinitesimal. But given the current prevalence, in my part of England at least, the risk of the teacher catching it is extremely low, much less dying from it.

This is what will happen:

There will no masks or PPE for teachers. Then the media will break a story of a teacher dying from covid. He/she asked to wear a mask in school but was refused permission. The media and press will be scandalized and start asking tough questions.

Politicians will feel under pressure. Things will change.

Where is this ppe you want coming from? We only just managed to supply the nhs? I have no problem with a teacher wearing a full on spacesuit if they want I just don’t see where they could get sufficient ppe from.