Children have been particularly impacted by this outbreak in Leicester

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

Schools will be closed as Leicester goes into lock down again.

Hancock confirmed on Sky news this morning that children could pass on the virus.

So why do people expect teachers to go back to work in September with no social distancing or PPE?

So many people here say it has to happen but at what risk to school staff? Do people think it's ok to put them at risk?

I don't.

An additional issue is that kids do spread other bugs. Hopefully less with all the hand washing etc but it will happen.

Every time a teacher or child gets ano sort of symptoms of a cold or cough, they need a test. Some take 24 hours, some a couple of days. That's still a teacher not at school for 2 days if they're in the clear.

Also, teachers may have to self isolate with their children or take them to be tested. More absences.

It's going to be very disruptive. So it needs to be right to minimise risk.

Japan have breezed through this due to normalised mask wearing.

Of course schools are a significant element of spread. The weekly surveillance data says it, the current events in Leicester say it, the SAGE modelling said it too, and said how much. That means that going forward we need to build that into our opening plans and balance everyone's needs with respectful conversations, not stamping and shouting about how we must have everything back to normal NOW.

Children are well known spreaders and superspreaders of many infections. It would be very very rare for there to be an infection where children were not involved in the spread.

Children are also, when young, not capable of socially distancing in the same way as adults. And yes, they can be grubby and snotty - anyone who has ever met a child can admit that.

Closing schools is a well established step in pandemic control. It was correct to close them at the start of the pandemic and it is correct to close the, in local lockdowns.

Unless, of course, you are one of those parents who thinks that a teachers life, or a vulnerable family members life is worth less than a child missing a bit of school.

How many more places have pillar 2 covid upticks they haven't told us about yet?

Do people think it's ok to put them at risk?

yes, actually, I think some health risk from COVID is ok to live with when we have so many other risks in life & the risks of all education & training just stopping are also great.

It doesn't matter what I think. The "no risk is acceptable" brigade will win as long as they act like COVID is the only risk that ever mattered in this world.

Many maybe most, Japanese schools & universities have been closed much of the time since February.

Yep.

Someone rang me today who is from
'Home but not alone"
And said my area is one of the next planned areas to lock down

@TrustTheGeneGenie The Guardian obviously has its bias. However, Cummings was advisor to Michael "The Blob" Gove and I have absolutely no doubt that his regard for the teaching profession is lower than a grave in hell. I also have absolutely no doubt that he will be spinning for all his worth to try to get one over Starmer. It is politics and both he and Johnson are as self serving as they come.

[quote nellodee]@TrustTheGeneGenie The Guardian obviously has its bias. However, Cummings was advisor to Michael "The Blob" Gove and I have absolutely no doubt that his regard for the teaching profession is lower than a grave in hell. I also have absolutely no doubt that he will be spinning for all his worth to try to get one over Starmer. It is politics and both he and Johnson are as self serving as they come.[/quote]
Of course it's politics and usually I lean left but I never thought I'd see the day where a Tory government wanted schools open and labour stopped giving a shit about poor people and children.

They're all as bad as eachother.

They’re not “missing a bit of school” and it has nothing to do with wanting childcare or not wanting to look after my own children. My preschool age child, who cannot seriously be expected to stay 2 metres away at all times from another child she’s playing with and for whom nursery could not find a space, will have gone 6 months by the time they go back in September without being allowed to legally play properly with a similar aged child (fortunately she has an older sibling, but that’s not the same thing). Nursery is the only place she isn’t expected to socially distance, and they can’t take her because of the bubbles limit. That’s not “missing a bit of school”. That’s missing a massive chunk of socialisation at a crucial development stage. Frankly yes, I do expect teachers to take moderate risks, or for the government to at least allow me to take moderate risks by allowing me to arrange proper non socially distanced play dates, Mum’s groups in the park etc. I’m one of those parents who expects children to be prioritised just as much as the vulnerable and elderly, and if that means shutting pubs, leisure facilities, restaurants, cafes, non essential shops, the Houses of Parliament and religious ceremonies instead then so be it. Schools and nurseries should have come after medical facilities, dental facilities and essential shops (no, I don’t count B&Q), not virtually last.

I'm also a parent of children who are not currently in school and I'm not seeing how you can expect more than the current guidelines without being extremely selfish @Triangularbubble .

TAs are leaving jobs. It's not worth their salary to take the risk.

Teachers will start leaving - our resignation date is 31st October to leave on 31st December. We'll know by then the true risks. If it looks bad, education will haemorrhage teachers unless safety measures are put in place.

Lets hope the gov gamble pays off for them.

Sorry, I mean let's hope that Johnson deciding my life isn't as important as I think it is, won't backfire on me.

" If you’re worried about data breaches through TEST and trace then you’re an idiot. You really are."

I'm not worried about my data; in worried about dying from this disease because the system is ineffective.

I'm worried that what a third to a quarter of contacts prove to be unreachable.
That the "public sage" group says it is not fit for purpose.
That the head of the programme presided over a company whose customers information being stolen from by literally 2 children.
That the programme has so far not proven to be the world beating system it is heralded to be which leads to lack of confidence in the system

But you keep being abusive over the internet if that is what makes you happy.

@ohthegoats I was just thinking today that teachers will be resigning in droves at this rate. I think they’ve been treated appallingly in all this, as if they are the source of the problem and also as if their lives and health are expendable. And let me make it very clear that I’m not a teacher.

Thank you, EarlGrey.

Triangularbubble are you seriously saying your child's wish to socialise with others the same age is more important than my life? You expect teachers to take moderate risk to their lives.
Would you risk your safety in the way you expect me to?
What about my 4 children? My husband? Me? What about our wish, not to socialise, but to have safety in the workplace as everyone else is entitled to?

No, because my child having appropriate education (which includes socialisation at her age - it’s not trivial as you are implying) is not at the cost of your life, but a small increase in your chances of catching a virus with a small risk of death. I would more than happily spend all day in a classroom with my children’s classes under the proposed rules, yes. Government and their scientists say you have safety in the workplace under their proposal, as far as I’m concerned that’s sufficient for me to think that yes, the risk is moderate enough that teachers and all children should be at school. I’d accept an alternative of schools remaining closed to my child but I get the funding that goes with her and permission to set up her own “bubble” instead...

Frankly, I don't care what you decide is an acceptable risk to my health.

Of course. I’m not actually part of goverment, so you don’t need to worry, I’m hardly going to be forcing you to go to work. I’m merely a concerned parent pontificating on the internet and I’m as entitled as anyone else to an opinion, including about acceptable risks. Your personal health, career and decisions are your own business.

We've got several shielding at our school now due to come back as gov say no more shielding. We have many parents and many teachers and family of teachers who have health conditions, cancer, diabetes etc.

There is no test and trace system in place. Class sizes are 35 per class. No room to distance.

I want things back at the same time, how will it work?

And how will it work if the Government aren’t telling Local Authorities the correct infection rates in their area? It seems they are withholding data in regards to community testing which isn’t included in the published daily data for England. For example where I live (East Midlands) the infection rate is now the same as it was in mid April apparently.

metro.co.uk/2020/06/30/hundreds-local-authorities-missing-vital-coronavirus-testing-data-12925072/

There have been school outbreaks every week since the beginning of this, and they have been increasing since schools reopened to wider but not not yet full numbers.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports

The attached shows school outbreaks from the above weekly report, where an outbreak is 2 or more people displaying symptoms of a respiratory illness

Many maybe most, Japanese schools & universities have been closed much of the time since February

You probably don’t know this, but the Japanese school year actually ends in mid-March and doesn’t re-open until mid-April in a normal year. They delayed reopening until early May, but have been operating since.

So why do people expect teachers to go back to work in September with no social distancing or PPE?

Because the risk is tiny.

Freedom of information request from Glasgow - over 1100 children on average in hub schools every day. 250ish staff across the city. Not ONE case of Covid19.

That is NOT the case in England though!
i agree maybe scotland can go back with these measure and review it.
In England as i say 1/1700 would be 1 in a secondary. So that would be them on pt in classes and seeing friends. 1/7 year group bubbles would be directly exposed. And probably all indirectly via siblings. So the risk of contact is not small.
This is like the gov lies about masks at the beginning whivh did a lot of damage.

The gov are leaving themself open to being sued. It is not safe could not be reasonably said to be safe. Plus they have 8w to source ppe.

Aside from that a whole school is just too many and will lead to more (possibly local) peaks.