Does anyone else think things are going to be worse than most people realise?

[username108]

In terms of the global depression and the short and long term effects? From what i've been reading, I don't think this is something we have ever faced and most people think it's going to be like the 2008 recession. People keep talking about a new normal but I don't think things will ever be like they were in 2019.

@Waxonwaxoff0 agree completely!

Yes, absolutely.

We are just at the very beginning of this. Lots of people are receiving money from the government to keep their jobs. There will be redundancies, lots.

The recovery will be U shaped not V.

It’ll be hard for a while - and Brexit on top will be horrendous, with unemployment and readjustment, but humans have always been creative and good at working together to adapt. We could end up with some slightly better social structures- perhaps more working from home and flexibility, so that days of standing on dangerously overcrowded trains disappear.

I don’t think the NHS can disappear after something like this. This has been a real illustration of why everyone needs access to healthcare paid by taxes, because we don’t want uninsured people unable to afford help, so then putting all of society at risk. If people don’t fight tooth and nail to protect the staff who have been losing their lives to save our Mums and Dads and family/friends I’d be very surprised.
We need much more investment in health, in MH services too after this, to improve everyone’s wellbeing, and also that’ll create extra employment, so will pay for itself in the longer-term, keeping a well population.

@dufeldaisy

good points. I'm actually surprised at the goodwill that is around throughout this so far - people are made of strong stuff - I just think the public voices have distorted our sense of who we are as a nation. There are plenty who will see this as a time for opportunity.

Yes I heard seven percent for Sweden too Redolent, and highest death rate per capita in the world there now

Highest death rate per capita?

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ says Sweden is number 8 and UK is number 6 (only just behind Italy).
What am I missing?

How do we prepare? Anything we should hoard or stockpile?

Money!!

Sorry @ItsLateHumpty I can't open worldometers in this browser. As I said it was something I heard, I think the source was the FT coronavirus case tracker. Have put a couple of links below, lots of media reports online and there also looks to be a reddit discussion but I can't open that in this browser either, argh!

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/

www.theweek.co.uk/107049/sweden-coronavirus-deaths-cases

Keep spending locally when you need something. Ie Stop ordering from amazon (hard I know) but it will help float the economy.

What's wrong with ordering from Amazon? If people are concerned about buying stuff from the UK, Amazon have loads of UK sellers and are very efficient. Is there some other factor that I don't know about?

@emmcan
Horribly flippant And crass reference there.
How can you write that so blithely?

Reported.

@duffeldaisy
How will they find that with a jobless economy? They won’t be able to raise taxes... they’ll be raising taxes simply to cover the welfare bill,

I’m afraid that mental health will go down the chute

The consequences of the global collapse in demand is devastating. There is a glut of supply from tulips to oil. There is no storage. Some industries will struggle to survive. This eclipses 2008. It has no parallel. As for Brexit? That looks like a parochial council matter from a different era. The EU is facing its own existential crisis because none of its members want to bail out Italy. The impact upon tourism, aviation and the oil industry is horrendous. There are tragedies playing out across the globe as both small businesses and multi nationals struggle to survive. The cessation of global economic activity was being promoted as a desirable goal prior to this event by certain activists. The result of this is going to cause terrible hardship.

I think a lot of this will depend on how China act in the coming years. They’re in a bad position right now. They’re experiencing a credit crunch and are making moves to use all the influence they’ve accumulated over the years now. They’re making further moves on HongKong and they’re trying to bully their neighbours into submission. Civilised countries need to get together a decide what to do right now otherwise this decade might result in something far worse than a depression caused by covid.

@Lynda07 because their tax arrangements do not benefit our economy. Therefore fucks our economy further.

Read up on Starbucks, Amazon, eBay, Vodafone etc.

Lockdown is going to end soon, last week the government instructed transport to be back to 100% on July 5th. No, Can’t give you a a source I’m in the industry. Although often I get the news and it’s immediately in the papers

@PhilCornwall1 that is absolutely the last thing anyone should be stockpiling right now. A lot of governments will have to borrow considerable amounts to pay for this and many will choose to devalue their currency to deal with the debt.

@ItsLateHumpty
I think the article I read said Sweden had the highest rate for the past week. So not highest overall but the headlines were written to make it sound that way.

emcan’s statement was maybe somewhat inappropriate but you will hear so much worse.
Reporting for that? Is that what MN has become?

Anyway, I’m both terrified and optimistic. We could move to a better place

I’m very worried about how this happened, if labs are still playing around with viruses and if it could happen again. If it killed ten per cent of people next time it would feel like Armageddon.

Thanks Inkpaperstars and Cumbercat, that makes sense.

The numbers are bad enough without the media spin, and in reality the numbers we’re looking at are historical, as they relate to cases already (in most cases) two weeks old.

Yes.

I suspect Sunak is in a growing state of horror at how much people are enjoying the lockdown.

Yes. What to stockpile and how to prepare. How about common sense, some thought for other people and how to be less selfish.

I've no idea. I'm scared the poorest will have to pay for it with austerity again though.

Does anyone know that the government immediately made changes to Universal Credit as soon as millions of people with no experience of it had to claim it because of covid??

For example they raised UC by £20 a week, they suspended the debt repayments which can take up to 30% of people's UC, suspended sanctions, changed the rent allowances to actually reflect rents.

So the new claimants don't know how bad UC was before for the poorest.

Hmm.

No one needs to stockpile, they instead need to keep spending within our country with companies that don’t have ridiculous tax set ups that don’t benefit our economy. The only reason the government furloughed, is to keep people spending and prop up GDPR.

Boycot Amazon, eBay, Starbucks, Vodafone, Google, Facebook etc

Think things are bad now with huge job losses just wait till December and a no deal Brexit. This country already on its knees with highest deathrate in Europe, highest shrinkage of economy now running at 14% a useless lying Government, highest borrowing ever in just one month, 2 million unemployed, just add Brexit and this country is finished. But don't worry likes of Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings will still be making millions. So yes this is nothing compared to what is coming.

When our own chancellor say that we are facing a recession the likes of which this country has never seen before its as good an indication that you're ever going to get that its going to be bad. We need to brace ourselves IMO.