Worried About Coronavirus- thread 37

[TheStarryNight]

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Emerald money keeps the NHS going, gets food on the table and a roof over our head
Yes I aware of that, I didn't say it didn't? I said life is not sustainable to stay indoors for months.

*I am.

Emerald - you said “ Money rules and keeps the world spinning unfortunately.”

I apologise for misunderstanding

I’m a bit ragey.

And no lock down is not killing people.
I see people have stopped going on about the amount of extra women who will be killed by DV since it emerged 3 extra women have been murdered. Tragic and awful, but sadly very small numbers in comparison to the thousands and thousands that will die if the government continues to pursue herd immunity.

I can find it but the thread about the 92 year old who couldn’t get anyone to help him go outside, a few people mentioned over 70s who want to sign a “do not treat” in exchange for freedom.

The guidance is just guidance of course and many 70+ in my tower block are going for walks as normal, living in 400 sq ft is quite hard if you’re not going out at all.

I think the backlash if that age group aren’t “allowed” more freedom will be immense. I haven’t seen my mum but if I get to see her in three weeks, I know I need to gird myself for the mental and physical decline.

We are going to go back to when Boris told us all on TV to accept that lots of our loved ones will die. Thousands more will die, far more than in any other comparable country.
Then we will get all the, well with the benefit of hindsight we could have done it differently, but this situation was unprecedented.
And it won't even give us herd immunity. It will make the virus endemic. So as people get older or ill, more people will continue to die.

Surely the only exit strategy possible without a vaccine is to get cases down to a manageable level to allow strict testing and contact tracing and quarantine to be carried out?
Anything else is insane.

@LilacTree1 The over 70s are still allowed to go out for walks. Age does not put you in the shielded group. So not sure why you think they can't go out for walks? They are being advised to by the government. Only the shielded group can not go out for walks.

alloutoffucks

I seriously don’t understand what you’re asking for. Do you mean that you want the lockdown to last indefinitely for everyone until a vaccine is available, or that the vulnerable should be locked down and have their incomes supported indefinitely (again until a vaccine comes)?

I’m not sure there are any governments in the world offering the first option, and probably few will offer the second.

all yes

But the over 70s should be allowed to do mixing of families when lockdown eases

The Buzzfeed article says it’s under consideration to keep the advice for 70+ and the shielding as the same for a longer time while others have more freedom.

This is all about “don’t you dare clog up the nhs” - it’s not some humanitarian urge to protect certain groups of people. So if a “do not treat” is the get out of jail free card, many will want it.

I think the backlash if that age group aren’t “allowed” more freedom will be immense

I don't think we should be giving any special treatment to any age group. If anyone is to be released from lockdown earlier it should be those least at risk in ant case, not the most vulnerable. Govt leaks today suggest isolation for the over 70s could continue for 12-18 months until there is a vaccine

I agree with alloutoffucks It seems like the worst timing too. Easing lockdown in early May means we'd have loads of infections just as we get into June/July, possible heatwave weather. The very worst time to need a second lockdown. And yes there'll be loads of deaths and they'll mutter about hindsight. Perhaps for once they could have some foresight instead. Far better to continue current lockdown a bit longer than end it too early and consequently face even more damage (both in terms of needless deaths and economically). Of course we really need to actually have a proper lockdown in order to genuinely slow the spread. Daily flights with 15,000 people coming in to our airports makes a mockery of lockdown.

I've heard the fruit picking jobs are very poorly paid with exploitative conditions. Rather than a race to the bottom, they need to pay living wages with improved working conditions - including considering part-time/jobshare. That should be the case even if ever there was a surplus of work and we needed to recruit from abroad. Why should foreign workers be exploited anymore than British ones.

I want an actual plan to eradicate the spread and stop people dying.
Because allowing everyone to catch a virus does not eradicate it, it makes it endemic. Not only will it kill a lot more people, it means it is here for good and will kill more people every single year. And countries that have eradicated it will not let UK people travel there, or not without a test certificate when that becomes available. We will be condemning ourselves as a country to problems and more deaths for decades.

alloutof it's not 3 extra women, it's at least 10, which may mean at least twice as many as usual. Usually average of 2 women a week die at the hands of a partner or ex partner. In just over 3 weeks of lockdown 16 women have died.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-domestic-abuse-uk-killings-women-girls-a9467131.html%3famp

With proper testing, contact tracing and forced isolation we can make this a rare illness that pops up occasionally. So of course there is no risk, but it is low risk.
It wont happen though because Boris is a coward.
I think because of our government it is almost inevitable that thousands upon thousands more people will die in the UK and far more than any other country. And that will have a big impact on our economy.

“ If anyone is to be released from lockdown earlier it should be those least at risk in ant case,“

How would you define that? And how would you defend cases of discrimination?

So a male - high risk due to being male - and 55, diabetes, asthma, is allowed to work as a delivery driver as that’s classed as essential.

But if he’s doing office admin, he’s not allowed back?

@StrawberryJam200 Sorry I was going by the official police figures. The average of 2 a week is just for England and Wales, don't know what the average is for Scotland and N Ireland.
That is awful and I feel really sorry for those women.
But sadly far more people are dying from covid 19. Thousands of people each week. Hopefully the new legislation about being able to stay at a friends to cool off will bring down the amount of women murdered.

It's clear the sudden apparent concern about DV is being used as an excuse by some to push for premature end to lockdown. Those women and children will include some in the vulnerable to Covid groups. Two women a week were being killed before lockdown. Where was the concern then? There's things that could be done if people (including to the government) were that bothered. Things that would also allow lockdown to continue. It's been suggested before on other threads and by other posters. Put victims up in empty holiday homes, hotels, student halls of residences. Loads of people registered as Covid volunteers to help deliver food, prescriptions, etc to the vulnerable. Some, I'm sure, would be willing to help transport victims to a place of safety. Let's not use DV victims as an excuse to push for a policy that will condemn the millions of vulnerable people in the UK to a high risk of death.

I want an actual plan to eradicate the spread and stop people dying.

That’s what everyone wants, but it doesn’t exactly look likely to happen. How many countries in Europe do you think will manage to actually eradicate it? And what about the rest of the world?

I think because of our government it is almost inevitable that thousands upon thousands more people will die in the UK and far more than any other country.

And when that doesn’t happen, will we get any acknowledgement from you that you were wrong? Remember how the apparently infallible Chinese figures were increased by 50% for Wuhan just yesterday.

And remember lots are in the vulnerable group that are not in the shielded group. So being pregnant does not mean you can't work. Being a 66 year old man with diabetes and high blood pressure does not get you in the shielded group.
If everyone has to go back to work there will be a lot of deaths of people in the vulnerable group. These will all be reported as having underlying conditions. But nothing will be done to help them prevent dying.
I despair at how a government can so willingly sacrifice so many of its own population.

NHS Frontline Staff May Refuse to Work Over Lack of PPE

This is all about “don’t you dare clog up the nhs” - it’s not some humanitarian urge to protect certain groups of people

This. I'm sick of hearing 'the NHS is coping' - it isn't. The Coronavirus service is coping and that's all we've got now.

@alloutoffucks I agree with LilacTree on this and don't see that it makes us suicidal. DH is high risk - if he ever gets the appointment that was cancelled, he will almost certainly be put in the shielded group. I'm my mum's carer - she's 88, has hypertension and asthma. I'm 55, no high risk health issues. I've already sat them both down and talked about this. I've made it very clear that if I only had myself to consider, I'd be getting my life back to normal at the first opportunity. DH agrees 100%, and shielding or not, he will do the same. My mum is adamant that my life should come before hers.

You say 'lockdown isn't killing people'. Yes it is Last year was the worst year of our lives - I'm not going into details. DH and I were both diagnosed with multiple-trauma PTSD, depression and severe anxiety. We worked fucking hard, picked ourselves up and kept going. Somehow, our marriage survived it. Through it all, I can say in all honesty I never once felt suicidal. DH did at the worst point. Now I'm starting to feel that way. And there will be hell of a lot of people feeling the same way. I'm not asking you to have the answers to these problems but don't insult people by pretending they just don't exist.

@ToffeeYoghurt Totally agree. It reminds me of how apparently we invaded Afghanistan to liberate women.

@CendrillonSings Why do we not just let TB spread through our population to create herd immunity? Or lots of other illnesses? If that is such a good approach why do we only use it for this one virus? Clue - because it does not work. The illness becomes endemic in the population. We can see this in action when a virus new to a population was released in a country during human exploration. Lots of people die, and the virus becomes endemic.
That is why public health work to eradicate viruses. And that is why some countries now are trying to do that with covid 19. This does not mean that no one in that country will have it in the future, it means you try and keep it to small isolated outbreaks. It takes courage to do this.

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Worried About Coronavirus- Thread 38

17 residents and one staff member from an Essex care home have died