People demanding a full lock down

[Londongirl88888]

It really really annoys me! Most of us are following rules. Not even going for a walk most days. People are kicking off on my local corna page that theres more cars in town today. So they now think we need a full lock down.

Firstly it's the weekend. More people will be shopping due to being at work all week? People might be shopping for other family and dropping it off.

Theres a police statement that the a52 is really quiet and they are saying well done for listening.

People are allowed out for walks. It's important for dogs, children and adults to get air and move around. It should be one walk a day. It can't be controlled if 400 people choose to do just that between 1-2pm or only 30 do. So yes the streets may sometimes show more people. But most of them are probably just going for a walk. The only thing we have left for our minds and health.

I'm not talking about people having picnics,
Travelling for an afternoon walk somewhere,
Sneaking to see family unless they need help.

I'm saying the majority of people are going to be doing the decent thing.

I think rather than fully locking us down fine the minority sat in groups and doing the "wrong" things. Give them a full lockdown but don't punish the many decent people.

The parents/people in flats without gardens need to walk

Young children need to move.

We all need to move about.

Also i wish people would stop getting in a rage about cars being out. There are no online shopping slots. So thousands of locals will need to go out for food each week. Milk and bread etc will need buying for many every few days. Pet food needs buying. Prescriptions need collecting. Workers need to go to and from work.

A huge majority of people are following the rules. I'm sick of everyone being put into the same category. My kids have gone for their 3rd walk in two weeks just now with their dad. I'm sure people will be tutting and presuming we are another family out and not listening. They need to get out for 15 minutes today though. They are starting to climb the walls and get bored.

Far too many irate people at the moment.

That's the bit that I referenced as under reporting, the government figure includes only hospital deaths and only those with a positive test. It doesn't include any out of hospital deaths or those with symptoms but no test.

Which has been perfectly clear.

You clearly dont understand how data is gathered. If you are producing data, you do so with clear parameters. That not lies. Nowhere has the daily figure been stated as representative of people not in hospitals, or people not tested.

When the daily figure comes out, they can not report who died in the same period not in hospital, because those deaths are recorded when the death is registered.

They arent going to sat 'approximately x amount have died outside hositpal'

ONS are collating that data. It's quite clear, the daily figure doesnt include those. Therefore it's not lies. It within the parameter.

Does that mean deaths caused by Covid-19 or deaths where people had symptoms of Covid-19 when they died, which aren't necessarily the same thing? My Mum's death certificate mentioned macular degeneration, but she certainly didn't die of it

It means where they suspect the person had it at the time of death. It certainly doesnt mean cause of death was covid.

The case if the young women with 'no health problems' that died of covid, didnt. She had a cough, she wasnt tested at hospital. She had heart attack. A cough is a symptom of heart failure. The hospital said it wasnt covid related. At the inquest, when opened, it say it was. Based on her having a cough. No evidence she had covid or had it and it contributed to her death.

You clearly dont understand how data is gathered

Are you sure about that?
You talk about parameters, but if the reporting and collating does not make those parameters clear to the readers, it is not effectively reporting accurate data is it?
But it is all by the by. In each briefing they list the deaths for the last 24 hours. But those deaths are not all of the deaths.
So effectively they are under reporting the actual deaths by not including the one dying outside of hospital.

So you can disagree and say I don't understand all you want. But they are leaving deaths outside hospitals off their daily figures, they do so every day, therefore the government is under reporting. Prove to me otherwise...

And for the record, I said;
"I didn't realise that the under reporting of 20% was part of the plan."
I didn't say it was lies, just under reporting.

@Shitsgettingcrazy so how do we know that those who have died with no underlying health conditions whether it was covid that actually caused them to die? Or do we just not know?

so how do we know that those who have died with no underlying health conditions whether it was covid that actually caused them to die? Or do we just not know?

We dont 100%. As I said, the doctors that attended the young woman who died, disagreed that the death involved covid at all. The cough is also a heart failure symptom. Given she died of a heart attack, that makes more sense that it was heart failure than covid. All coughs arent covid.

You talk about parameters, but if the reporting and collating does not make those parameters clear to the readers, it is not effectively reporting accurate data is it?

It's been quite clear what their figures and the parameters of the data are.

As I quoted above, ONS explains the difference and why theres a difference and how they are all useful in their own way.

And why they are all be collected.

So you can disagree and say I don't understand all you want. But they are leaving deaths outside hospitals off their daily figures, they do so every day, therefore the government is under reporting. Prove to me otherwise...

Yes because for the daily briefings figure, those deaths aren't included.

I didn't say it was lies, just under reporting.

It's not under reporting. It data gathering within that reports parameters. Under reporting would suggest they are saying the figure is all deaths, inside and outside hospital. Or creating an estimate and deciding to go low.

Can I ask who you think ONS are and who they report to?

@shitsgettingcrazy see this is why I have such an issue, people see young people dying with no underlying health conditions and immediately panic. I’m the most placid person ever, really laid back nothing really phases me but I must admit even I am getting a little panicked at times as I am frontline nhs in the community and I sometimes worry I am going to die now. Would those who have died have died anyway but because of what is going on it is being reported? Also the doctors and nurses who are dying it is absolutely tragic, they would be highly stressed, knackered, overworked and probably not eating properly. A perfect storm of issues that really affect your immune system

Until the person doing the briefing explicitly says, "These figures do not include deaths outside of hospitals" they're under reporting.
It's those figures being shared on social media and quoted. People are surprised when it is pointed out that it is not all deaths only the ones the government have decided are within their reporting parameters.

But I'm done with you. Be gone.

Until the person doing the briefing explicitly says, "These figures do not include deaths outside of hospitals" they're under reporting.
It's those figures being shared on social media and quoted. People are surprised when it is pointed out that it is not all deaths only the ones the government have decided are within their reporting parameters.

Nope. Not how data reporting is done.

Just because you think itshould be done a certain way. Doesnt make so.

Unless you can have a coherent discussion about it. The only one that needs to 'be gone' is you.

Data gathering cant suit everyone personal preference

Thats why you always question data. If you dont wat to discuss data, how it is gathered and wether something is misleading or not. Stop quoting it, if you dont understand it.

Stop being rude to those that do. It reflects really badly on you. And your intelligence.

TheCountessatHotelCortez it a problem.

People often talk about facts and figures. Bit unfortunately data can be manipulated in many ways. Impacts by bias (sometimes subconscious) and a change in parameters can heavily impact the data.

Anytime someone quotes a stat or data, I am always interested in the background. Like the fact that germany has less deaths, doesnt mean anything. Because they report differently.

Stop being rude to those that do. It reflects really badly on you. And your intelligence.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😝😝😝😝😝😝

Bit unfortunately data can be manipulated in many ways

Like government setting their parameters to ignore 20% of deaths?..

"Oh Joseph Smith was born a prophet.."

I'm leave it for the readers of the thread to decide tbh.

Government- "938 deaths in the last 24 hours."
No mention of it only being those in hospital and having a positive test.

ONS - "Our figures include all deaths and they're almost 20% higher than the Government"
includes all deaths that mention Covid / Corona both in and out of hospital.

And now oh mighty intellectual data collecting one, I am gone..
😂😂😂

Monkey you’re so rude to people that don’t have the same opinion as you some of your comments towards others are so unnecessary. You can state your opinion without being so sarcastic and impolite to someone else.

I really can't, I've tried many times, some of us are just assholes.

Like government setting their parameters to ignore 20% of deaths?

Again, they arent ignoring them. The ONS clearly state the differences and why theres differences. The benefits of it, the benefits of NHS Englands revised numbers and their own.

I get that you cant grasp the difference. Data without parameters is meaningless. The data for deaths outside hospital is full of holes, itself.

You dont even understand who ONS are. Which is odd, given you love quoting them.

It seems you just have tantrums when people point out you are wrong. Some people arenr mature enough to handle it. Thats fine. Just how some people are.

It seems you just have tantrums when people point out you are wrong. Some people arenr mature enough to handle it. Thats fine. Just how some people are.

Wow... What a burn.. no really.. I'm literally cut to the core by a self attested intellectul on the internet. I don't know how I'll recover..

Whilst you're all "but the parameters" and "but see datar correllecting"
Others are noticing the government aren't being accurate in their reporting. Other countries are.managing to include all deaths.. Der perambulators must be different.. now excuse me, I got some herpa derp.. derp deep to be doing..

55378008 is my favourite number.

monkey, you're not coming across very well on here. You should consider your own advice and 'be gone'.

monkey, you're not coming across very well on here. You should consider your own advice and 'be gone'.

DILLIGAF