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Conflict in the Middle East
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91
Twiglets1 · 20/07/2026 07:31

RedTagAlan · 20/07/2026 07:03

It is sad about these US military being killed, but it is predicted with the ammo counting theory. Because as interceptor stock run low, some areas will be undefended from Iranian low cost munitions.

And there is statistics of course, The more strikes, the more chance of a hit.

I notice from the news feeds, that it is usually reported that it is the Gulf states who are intercepting what Iran fires. So the Gulf states are using their Patriots that they bought from the US ? That does not really make sense. Because A)- I thought the whole point of the US having bases there was for defense, and B)- if the targets are US bases, then intercepting missiles on the way to targets increases the chance of falling debris causing damage to non military stuff.

It's a strange thing really, because it is a US war, but other nations are doing a lot of the fighting. Just like Proxies really.

Nothing like the Iranian proxies. The Gulf countries are defending their own country from attack; they would not have initiated attacks on Iran.

Twiglets1 · 20/07/2026 08:22

RedTagAlan · 20/07/2026 08:14

I am trying out an alternate logic here.

So, because countries say Iran cannot be allowed a nuke, that must mean it's ok, desirable even, for other countries to have nukes ?

So if South Korea, or Germany or Afghanistan declare that they want nukes, the world will do everything they can to help them ?

Or does this thing apply ?

Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) | United Nations Office for Disarmament Affairs (unoda.org)

No it's not desirable for any country to have nukes.

But we can't change the fact that some countries already have them.

Given their murderous intentions towards at least two other countries - Israel and the US - it's entirely understandable why so many other countries feel strongly that it's especially important that Iran should not be allowed to develop the capability for nuclear weapons.

Which is not to say it would be desirable for more peaceful countries like Germany these days to develop them either - it wouldn't.

trumpredcard · 20/07/2026 08:32

Great post upthread @BelleHathor about Israel having nukes. Thank you, bookmarked to peruse at leisure.

@RedTagAlan I agree the Iran War is also a proxy war re GCC. They get to pay for Trump's foolish insertion into ME politics. Collateral damage, what collateral damage?

TopPocketFind · 20/07/2026 08:42

Ninth consecutive night of strikes against Iran

OP posts:
RedTagAlan · 20/07/2026 08:57

Re Germany and nukes. Germany has been looking into them, Because of Trump. They have been looking at getting planes altered to be nuke capable. I think with a view to borrowing French bombs.

South Korea also. They are now talking about Nukes. Because they feel they can't rely on the US any more... because of Trump. It was OK with Biden of course, But not Trump.

On Proxy wars and targets. The PRC leaders have long said the TW issue is a US Proxy cold war. And PRC state media has also been clear re what legitimate targets are for when TW happens. They have said clearly that if Japan allows US ships to sail from US bases in Japan, then those bases are targets. They have also said that if Japan gets involved, then Japan is a target. To me that makes logical sense. I might not like it, but it is logical.

Now to Iran. The Trump logic appears to be that because Iran supports Hamas and Hezbollah, then Iran is a legitimate target. But if Gulf States support the US in striking Iran, then those states are not legitimate targets for Iran.

Something is not logical there. It is like old B&W Western film logic. White hat cowboys V black hat cowboys. Or all Indians bad, all white men good. It is old fashioned colonial era thinking.

As a PP said so well, it is white supremacy, or US supremacy, in action.

OP posts:
trumpredcard · 20/07/2026 09:11

TopPocketFind · 20/07/2026 08:42

Ninth consecutive night of strikes against Iran

Not even the gamblers on Kalshi are willing to bet on when the strikes on Iran will end.
This senseless war has the potential to turn into Vietnam 2.0 if Trump follows up with boots on the ground.

I'm also thinking that the term 'collateral damage' is a cold and heartless term for the loss of life, injuries and damage caused to non-combatants and civilian infrastructure.

RedTagAlan · 20/07/2026 09:12

TopPocketFind · 20/07/2026 09:02

And Saudi Arabia have a defense pact. And Pakistan have nukes.

The Pakistan-Saudi Defence Pact - The Defence Horizon Journal (tdhj.org)

MAD.

As I recall, Pakistan have nukes because India has them, And Idia has them because the PRC has them, And the PRC has them because the USA have them.

And interestingly, apart from the Cuban missile crisis, there was was another instance of near Nuke war. That was the PRC v the Soviet Union. In 1969. That's near totally banned on my web, so no link as evidence sorry.

The Pakistan-Saudi Defence Pact - The Defence Horizon Journal

The U.S. and the Regional powers, particularly India and Israel, must urgently reassess their security strategies in light of shifting alliances.

https://tdhj.org/blog/post/smda-pakistan-ksa/

rainingsnoring · 20/07/2026 11:01

Twiglets1 · 20/07/2026 06:43

I don't get "very upset" when people "challenge" me - they do it every single day on here. What does annoy me is personal attacks and I'm not about to tolerate those despite it is so grating apparently for those that like to dish them out with no repercussions.

Let's face it - my posts get deleted too the minute I say something that could be interpreted as a rule break - so let's not be hypocrites about it. Other people report posts too, they just don't admit to it as I have done.

Moving on - yay! for Spain winning against Argentina, it wasn't right that they were getting away with so much cheating (and I won the sweepstake😀).

I didn't say that you get upset when people challenge you. I said that you attack other posters, by accusing them of having said things which they have not, and then become upset when they challenge you back and have their posts deleted. I haven't seen an occasion when you have apologised/explained that you misunderstood or were wrong.
I can't follow these threads closely enough to know whose posts are being deleted nor who is deleting them. As I've said, I prefer these comments that I consider awful to stand (not just yours btw) so that people can look back at them.

It is of no relevance who says that Iran should not have a nuclear weapon. They do not have one in any case. Sadly, both the US and Israel do and there is a significant risk that they might use them. Remember, the US are the only country that have ever done so. My concern is the escalation of this devastating war, which carries the risk of escalating into a nuclear conflict and a risk of causing a worldwide depression. The escalating situation in Russia/Ukraine is also a great concern.

rainingsnoring · 20/07/2026 11:04

RedTagAlan · 20/07/2026 08:57

Re Germany and nukes. Germany has been looking into them, Because of Trump. They have been looking at getting planes altered to be nuke capable. I think with a view to borrowing French bombs.

South Korea also. They are now talking about Nukes. Because they feel they can't rely on the US any more... because of Trump. It was OK with Biden of course, But not Trump.

On Proxy wars and targets. The PRC leaders have long said the TW issue is a US Proxy cold war. And PRC state media has also been clear re what legitimate targets are for when TW happens. They have said clearly that if Japan allows US ships to sail from US bases in Japan, then those bases are targets. They have also said that if Japan gets involved, then Japan is a target. To me that makes logical sense. I might not like it, but it is logical.

Now to Iran. The Trump logic appears to be that because Iran supports Hamas and Hezbollah, then Iran is a legitimate target. But if Gulf States support the US in striking Iran, then those states are not legitimate targets for Iran.

Something is not logical there. It is like old B&W Western film logic. White hat cowboys V black hat cowboys. Or all Indians bad, all white men good. It is old fashioned colonial era thinking.

As a PP said so well, it is white supremacy, or US supremacy, in action.

None of it is logical in any way. The hegemon is losing its grip on power and feeling challenged by the rising one(s) so is flailing around attacking others. I'm sure none of us expect any logic from DJT!

Twiglets1 · 20/07/2026 11:45

rainingsnoring · 20/07/2026 11:01

I didn't say that you get upset when people challenge you. I said that you attack other posters, by accusing them of having said things which they have not, and then become upset when they challenge you back and have their posts deleted. I haven't seen an occasion when you have apologised/explained that you misunderstood or were wrong.
I can't follow these threads closely enough to know whose posts are being deleted nor who is deleting them. As I've said, I prefer these comments that I consider awful to stand (not just yours btw) so that people can look back at them.

It is of no relevance who says that Iran should not have a nuclear weapon. They do not have one in any case. Sadly, both the US and Israel do and there is a significant risk that they might use them. Remember, the US are the only country that have ever done so. My concern is the escalation of this devastating war, which carries the risk of escalating into a nuclear conflict and a risk of causing a worldwide depression. The escalating situation in Russia/Ukraine is also a great concern.

Raining: I didn't say that you get upset when people challenge you

Also Raining (yesterday): You then get very upset when people challenge you and get their posts deleted.

Twiglets1 · 20/07/2026 11:52

The reason so many countries say specifically Iran cannot have nuclear weapons when they don't say it about other countries, cannot all be put down to "white supremacy".

What about when the countries saying it are Middle Eastern countries themselves saying it about another ME country, Iran?

They say it because Iran is a threat to peace in the Middle East and the IRGC are open about their desire to destroy Israel and the US if they had the opportunity. Every aggression they show to other countries - even their neighbours in the ME - make the international community more convinced that Iran must never be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

RedTagAlan · 20/07/2026 12:29

And that is why there was a JCPOA. A deal done between the US, Russia, France, China, the UK, plus the EU..... and Iran.

And Trump unilaterally tore it up.

Has anyone asked him why he tore it up ?

Lets not forget. The P5 + 1 are the UN sec council perm members. They are the people with the power to do a UN vote for war. Really, the most powerful group on earth, and they all agreed with the deal with Iran. THEY WROTE IT.

So Mr T. Why tear it up ?

Twiglets1 · 20/07/2026 13:25

I don’t know if anyone has asked him why he tore it up Red but I don’t think you obsessing over the past is going to help anyone trust Iran in the present or the foreseeable future with nuclear weapons .

Ihatetomatoes · 20/07/2026 13:27

Twiglets1 · 20/07/2026 11:45

Raining: I didn't say that you get upset when people challenge you

Also Raining (yesterday): You then get very upset when people challenge you and get their posts deleted.

😂

Ihatetomatoes · 20/07/2026 13:30

Twiglets1 · 20/07/2026 11:52

The reason so many countries say specifically Iran cannot have nuclear weapons when they don't say it about other countries, cannot all be put down to "white supremacy".

What about when the countries saying it are Middle Eastern countries themselves saying it about another ME country, Iran?

They say it because Iran is a threat to peace in the Middle East and the IRGC are open about their desire to destroy Israel and the US if they had the opportunity. Every aggression they show to other countries - even their neighbours in the ME - make the international community more convinced that Iran must never be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

Iran appear very unpredictable. They were lobbing missiles into various middle eastern countries when in a war with America. They also fund various terrorist organisations which keep the middle east unstable.

Note. They aren't the only unpredictable nation, but other don't fund or encourage terrorist actions in a range of countries.

Ihatetomatoes · 20/07/2026 13:41

The whole situation is a mess. It feels like escalation again and neither side appears to want moderation.

RedTagAlan · 20/07/2026 13:42

obsessing

Oh dear. Another wild assumption there. As attempt at an insult even. Look at the feeble minded obsessive.

It is a thread for discussing the US/Iran war of course. What should we be discussing here ? Golf ?

In fact, we can discuss golf here. Because Trump, that guy who tore up the JCPOA, and just recently tore up HIS OWN MOU, that MOU that he appears to have not even wanted to try to honour, is a notorious golf cheat.

That's right. he can't even knock a wee ball about a field with a stick without cheating. In fact, as a challenge for the pro Trump thread, I wonder if any pro Trumpers can name a single thing he has been honest about.

I honestly can't think of anything offhand that he has not embellished, exaggerated, or just flat out lied about. And this is the guy that will somehow solve all.

BelleHathor · 20/07/2026 14:03

RedTagAlan · 20/07/2026 13:42

obsessing

Oh dear. Another wild assumption there. As attempt at an insult even. Look at the feeble minded obsessive.

It is a thread for discussing the US/Iran war of course. What should we be discussing here ? Golf ?

In fact, we can discuss golf here. Because Trump, that guy who tore up the JCPOA, and just recently tore up HIS OWN MOU, that MOU that he appears to have not even wanted to try to honour, is a notorious golf cheat.

That's right. he can't even knock a wee ball about a field with a stick without cheating. In fact, as a challenge for the pro Trump thread, I wonder if any pro Trumpers can name a single thing he has been honest about.

I honestly can't think of anything offhand that he has not embellished, exaggerated, or just flat out lied about. And this is the guy that will somehow solve all.

I remember we've discussed this before on a previous Thread.

Trump tore up the JCPOA as that is what his rich Pro Israel donor's wanted, especially the the late Sheldon Adelson (whose wife is Miriam Adelson) who donated $35 million to Trump's 2015/6 campaign.
https://fpif.org/these-three-billionaires-paved-way-for-trumps-iran-deal-withdrawal/

"President Donald Trump has just fulfilled a campaign pledge to tear up the Obama administration’s signature foreign policy achievement, a multilateral agreement constraining Iran’s nuclear enrichment (Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action or JCPOA).

In doing so, the president went against the advice of, among many others, his secretary of defense, House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Ed Royce (R-CA), Washington’s three most important European allies, and almost-two thirds of Americans who believe that the U.S. should not withdraw from the deal, according to a CNN poll released on Tuesday morning."

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2020/11/07/trumps-biggest-donors-will-continue-to-shape-gop-foreign-policy/
"The influence of the Adelsons over Trump’s Middle East policy has been unmistakable. Sheldon Adelson — who in 2013 suggested detonating a nuclear bomb in an “Iranian desert” and threatening a nuclear attack on Tehran, a city of more than 12 million people, if Iran didn’t abandon its nuclear program — promoted John Bolton to Trump as his national security adviser, and Adelson’s financial support for Trump’s 2016 campaign coincided with Trump’s about-face on a variety of positions on U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East, bringing him closely in line with Adelson’s hawkish and pro-Likud views.

Trump delivered on a number of important issues for the Adelsons, including abrogating from the Iran nuclear deal and moving the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

Honoring his top donors, Trump even gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Miriam Adelson, no doubt helping pave the way for the Adelsons’ support of his reelection bid."

https://www.972mag.com/bannon-adelson-drove-jerusalem-embassy-move/

"Iran is another issue where Adelson’s influence can be felt. Adelson has proposed deploying a nuclear weapon against Iran and vehemently opposes the Iran nuclear deal (known as the JCPOA). During the campaign, Trump called the JCPOA “the stupidest deal of all time” and told an American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) audience, “My number-one priority is to dismantle the disastrous deal with Iran.” In the middle of January, Trump will face a deadline to reimpose sanctions, potentially in violation of the JCPOA, or waive the sanctions. Here, too, Trump may well reveal that he made a commitment to adopt a hawkish foreign policy in the Middle East in exchange for Adelson’s support."

American Foreign policy is being decided by who can sign the biggest cheques, in any normal democracy this would be considered treasonous as none of these actions were in America's strategic interest.

Fun fact: Paul Singer was one of the biggest cheerleaders for regime change in Venezuela, his Company acquired the rights to some strategic assets in Venezuela that increased in value after Maduro's arrest kidnap.

https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/the-emperors-new-oil-wealth
https://www.commondreams.org/news/paul-singer-venezuela

These Three Billionaires Paved Way For Trump’s Iran Deal Withdrawal

GOP megadonors Sheldon Adelson, Bernard Marcus, and Paul Singer are getting exactly what paid for when they threw their financial weight behind Trump

https://fpif.org/these-three-billionaires-paved-way-for-trumps-iran-deal-withdrawal/

Ihatetomatoes · 20/07/2026 14:12

Where is the Pro Trump thread? I think the bloke is a mad man, narcissist, liar, etc. Im definitely not pro Trump. I'd be surprised if many, apart from his US backers support him.

BelleHathor · 20/07/2026 14:24

rainingsnoring · 20/07/2026 03:28

Thanks @BelleHathor. I saw that tweet on X too.
I have to admit that I had been impressed by Joe Kent up until this. Do you think it is possible that he might be trying to appeal to the administration to stop and get out but in the sort of stupid language they understand? Clutching at straws perhaps...

As to the quite frequent US attitude towards 'foreigners', I think some of it is stupidity and ignorance but also an arrogance which, as you say, assumes superiority and a need to educate all the savages! It's pretty common amongst Brits and other Europeans, unfortunately.

@rainingsnoring I'm still impressed by Joe Kent, he is extremely intelligent and well spoken. Watching his interviews are very interesting, it's clear that he attended the persuasion classes when he worked at the CIA and he is an expert in nudge theory, https://www.imperial.ac.uk/nudgeomics/about/what-is-nudge-theory/. I wasn't joking when I called him the Pied Piper, it's clear that he is on some sort of mission to become the acceptable face of non-interventionism.

Not clutching at straws. I do think that Joe Kent is trying to communicate with Trump taking into account all of Donald's personality traits. Kent never criticises Trump, always calls him President, praises Trump's strength, lists the mistakes that other President's made (like Carter and the hostage crises) and act's like he is trying to protect Trump. He using the type of language that can be heard in the White House and also within the ordinary rank and file military. Robert Barnes has said so.

Here are 2 posts from people who know Joe Kent:

"Joe Kent is my ex-husband’s best friend. He was in my wedding. If you had asked me 10 years ago I would’ve called him my friend too. But anyone who’s ever been divorced knows exactly how that works. When couples split up and the friends get divided there’s the little f and the big F and of course I was the little f with Joe. No hard feelings, that’s just the way it is.

Joe Kent is a good man. A quintessential American man. He loves our country. And he loves our people; he served both of them with pride.

For years anti-Americanism has been the litmus for authenticity in the struggle against Israel. I truly believe this was by design. Americans who loved their country but were appalled by our support for Israel’s apartheid state were routinely rebuffed or rebuked by the radical ideology that greeted them anytime they ventured into anti-Israel spaces.

The choices for moderate to conservative normies were:

1. Ignore the Israel thing
2. Embrace the far-Left
3. Embrace the far-Right

Most people simply opted for #1.

But in the post-Oct 7 world something cracked and a middle road between 2 & 3 opened up. Over time it has drawn many new people to the cause.

I’m sympathetic to the plight of both the people who have been fighting the good fight against Israel for decades and the ones who are just waking up to the problem. It’s probably bc in my own personal life I know both. And in a way I am both. Prior to Oct 7th I wasn’t honest with myself about the brutality of the Zionist regime and the role America has played in enabling it.

It’s a hard, bitter pill to swallow. It has left me depressed, ashamed and hopeless at times. It’s something we all must grapple with eventually. But I don’t expect anyone to do it at first.

So I guess what I’m trying to say is I completely agree with SG, we all need to grant more grace. We must stand firmly against the unjust and never be afraid to speak against bad ideas and principles but we should be gracious too"

And

" [Joe Kent] is taking a lot of flack for these posts and on the surface it may feel disappointing to read some of it. But we must appreciate the journey Joe has been on over the course of the last few years. Most of us do not (or no longer) have feet or toes in the military community. Joe still does. The military community thinks differently. They were trained to do so and they cannot be expected to completely jettison that DNA they have absorbed. I have good friends in or from that community and I understand it. Rather than bust his chops or call him a fraud, perhaps the best approach is to consider him an ally who is not quite where many of us are but is coming in our direction. That is what Ron Paul would do. Such was the case with MTG just a couple of years ago. If we turn on Joe and call him a fraud because he does not mouth the exact slogans we wish, we are going to alienate a valuable and powerful ally. Also, remember that Joe is speaking to our nation's military in a language they understand. It is the voice of someone who has walked the walk and as such has incredible potential to enlighten and convert many of them into thinking differently about what "America first" really means. To help them understand what I consider actual patriotism. Listen - I've spent a bit of time with Joe this spring and he is a sincere and wonderful person. His respect for Ron Paul runs deep. Let's not kick him in the balls because he is not saying exactly what some of us want him to say. Instead, let's remember we are a broad coalition trying in our own individual ways to move our country in the right direction and change its destructive course. Joe has already identified most of the problems. Read his writings and listen to his interviews. Let's not go sectarian on him. He is our friend."

I trying to have the capacity to give him grace and allow space for growth. He hasn't run away, or begged for forgiveness, cried like he's a victim and I realise that not everyone can "get it". It's also important that he communicates to the rank and file, it's change there that will be part of the solution.

What is Nudge Theory?

Chronic medical conditions, such as obesity, type 2 diabetes and heart disease have far reaching consequences on health at an individual and populati...

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/nudgeomics/about/what-is-nudge-theory/

trumpredcard · 20/07/2026 14:31

RedTagAlan · 20/07/2026 13:42

obsessing

Oh dear. Another wild assumption there. As attempt at an insult even. Look at the feeble minded obsessive.

It is a thread for discussing the US/Iran war of course. What should we be discussing here ? Golf ?

In fact, we can discuss golf here. Because Trump, that guy who tore up the JCPOA, and just recently tore up HIS OWN MOU, that MOU that he appears to have not even wanted to try to honour, is a notorious golf cheat.

That's right. he can't even knock a wee ball about a field with a stick without cheating. In fact, as a challenge for the pro Trump thread, I wonder if any pro Trumpers can name a single thing he has been honest about.

I honestly can't think of anything offhand that he has not embellished, exaggerated, or just flat out lied about. And this is the guy that will somehow solve all.

5, 4, 3, 2, 1.......deleting

But to get back to the REAL thread

Swipe left for the next trending thread