Let's face it Iran is indiscriminatly hitting Israeli civilians targets including schools using cluster bombs.....

[mids2019]

Iran is firing missiles into heavily populated Israeli towns and have abandoned the pretence of targeting anything military.....this is just pure terrorism and does make you think what would happen if Iran did manage to develop a nuclear weapon.

Just hoping more of the missile launch sites can be taken out and this terrorist regime falls.

Negotiate? Or is there another option?

Austria has just banned US military flights. Map attached I clipped from Sky.

This war is not popular it appears.

Close the markets until this is resolved?

Dramatic - but it certainly looks like the markets are being played by the player.

I think Trump is smart.

He creates chaos as a cover for him to do what he wants.

Like the guys in films who set off the fire alarm, or shot into the sky. In the ensuing mayhem, they calmly walk out the door.

The question is - what thing is Trump doing on his calm walk and how many things is he doing?

This is the list of demands from earlier, given those negotiating have already said we can’t do anything it’ll be interesting to see if the whole lot gets forced on them.

Iran’s counter-offer after US submits peace plan
Iranian negotiators have informed the Trump administration of their demands for an end to the war.

The Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) is demanding that the US closes all of its bases in the Gulf and pays reparations for the attacks.

Other demands include:
Iran is able to collect fees from ships travelling through the Strait of Hormuz

Guarantees that the war won’t restart, as well as an end to Israel’s operation against Hezbollah in Lebanon

Lifting all sanctions on Iran

No limitations on Iran’s missile programme

That last one - I hope someone is considering the potential for MAD in five to ten years.

Well he’ll be playing the markets

not him as he’s too stupid but he has minions and his son in law for that

The paragraph you selected highlights that the writers says it's made Israel safer but that has come at the expense of many other countries. As the writer says the war will be paid for by Europe and Asia.

We've been told time and again that the war was to stop Iran ever getting nuclear weapons - but now thats shifted to regular bombing campaigns at will.

It can only bring greater instability to the Middle Eastern economies and the RoW.

By "earlier", do you mean from before the war? Do you have a link, please?

Trump latest post

“The biggest bridge in Iran comes tumbling down, never to be used again — Much more to follow! IT IS TIME FOR IRAN TO MAKE A DEAL BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE, AND THERE IS NOTHING LEFT OF WHAT STILL COULD BECOME A GREAT COUNTRY! President DONALD J. TRUMP”

After schools, bridges are now targets.

Yes the writer does suggest that Europe and Asia will pick up the economic cost.

But as he also points out, from Trump's point of view he has "succeeded in making the Middle East safer for Israel".

And he has ... "never much been concerned about the consequences of his policies for the rest of the world".

So Trump bombed Iran for Israel?

Anything to do with his real estate plan for Gaza?

Mainly for his own selfish reasons I'm sure.

But he will count it as as one of the benefits if he has made the region safer for Israel.

And never mind the Iranian people

Bombing civilian infrastructure is a war crime

Yes, thank you, that was my point.

The UK been asked - and ordered and insulted - to support an action which will damage our economy for objectives that shift when it becomes clear they are unachievable.

And we are facing not only an high economic cost but potentially a cost to our armed forces if they are left to open the Strait.

The follow on from that is that ‘safer for Israel’ is a temporary illusion as repeated bombing campaigns are explicitly anticipated.

So the economic damage (at a minimum) will be repeated at will.

in addition Iran is making 3x on its petrol industry that it was a month ago. A $14 billion windfall in selling its oil.

And after all that the regime and the uranium remains in place.

Yes it is.

Iranian regime has bombed civilian infrastructure too.

And murdered their own people.

And funded terrorist proxies.

And recruited children of 12 and over into their war.

And lots of other despicable things.

@Notonthestairs Keir Starmer has taken the right approach to this war I think by not getting too involved.

I do think Israel is safer with the Iranian regime weakened however.

They surely must be weakened militarily and economically, though they would never admit it.

It was a just over a week ago. Fortunately the excellent @Twiglets1puts some records of what’s happening on here

Offer and counter offer

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5508101-trumps-15-point-peace-plan-irans-counter-offer?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

As has Israel.

And I am sure we can mention many more countries.

My comment was about the US and Trump

Thanks.

Glad to see posters are now backing Starmer's approach.

No, Israel has not murdered their own people.
And funded terrorist proxies.
And recruited children of 12 and over into their war.

If you're referring to me, I backed his approach from the start.

I think whoever negotiates next with the IRGC will struggle. They have everything to gain and little resistance to their demands at this point.

Although there is a military meeting apparently next week similar to today.

The Straits were open 5 weeks ago. The US & Israel need to sort it out.

No They've committed a Genocide in Gaza
The mass murder of others no less important than their own people and in fact equal
The Israeli Govn has supported and encouraged the Israeli illegal occupation of the West Bank
and Now invaded Lebanon
The list of atrocities against Palestinians in endless

If they accept and are complicit in blowing up bridges, desalination plants and other means of survival then they are complicit in war crimes in Iran too

lets not forget.

These guys aren’t supposed to be the terrorists