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Conflict in the Middle East

What was the purpose of this level of destruction?

317 replies

Stripes56 · 12/10/2025 22:47

Gazans are returning to their homes and are horrified to see the level of destruction. Their joy mixed with despair.

www.timesofisrael.com/gazans-joy-over-ceasefire-tempered-by-shock-as-they-return-to-destroyed-homes/

We can feel joy that the hostages are returning home, relief that Hamas will be sidelined - but how do we reconcile with the death and destruction that has happened in Gaza?

OP posts:
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Gloriia · 13/10/2025 14:12

Pasly · 13/10/2025 14:08

I wouldn't bother you would think on day that has seen the safe return of the remaining living hostages the hate and vitriol might stop but it's too entrenched.

No hate or vitriol just facts. It was not a holocaust or a gencide and those who have peddled the hamas tales should be ashamed.

Gaza will have a massive amount of funding to rebuild. Let's hope they don't blow it all on weapons and tunnels as they did previously. I wouldn't bet on it though.

TicklishMauveSquid · 13/10/2025 14:13

Gloriia · 13/10/2025 13:55

Have you seen them all partying in the streets looking very well fed and healthy?! We didn't see that after the actual genuine holocaust and genocide in ww2 did we.

It's fine to now admit you were hoodwinked by hamas. Their pr man <until he was zapped> was very effective.

They really desperately now want us NOT to believe what we see (healthy looking, clean clothed, fresh hair cuts) when a few weeks ago they wanted us to to believe what could be seen in the pictures of emancipated babies and children who had undisclosed medical conditions.

It is perverse in the extreme!

People should be really insulted by how dumb the Hamas propaganda machine thinks they are.

staringatthesun · 13/10/2025 14:15

juggleit · 13/10/2025 00:26

Thank you 🙏

I would suggest this is not an unbiased source, but how could it be when Israel have not allowed the world's s media into Gaza.

DrPrunesqualer · 13/10/2025 14:18

Hoppinggreen · 13/10/2025 13:39

Bloody Hell, do people actually believe this stuff?

Only those that want to
as they desperately look to blame anyone other than Israel for the total destruction of Gaza

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 14:22

Stripes56 · 12/10/2025 23:25

I hope Trump does continue to strive for the Nobel Peace prize -by ensuring that there is a reasonable two state solution for Palestinians. The ceasefire is insufficient itself. For the sake of Palestinians and for repairing Israel’s reputation.

I am not so sure what will happen to Israel’s leaders. Netanyahu still faces fraud charges but I don’t think he will ever set foot in the ICC. His travels may be severely restricted due to the ICC warrant though.

But the Palestinians themselves don’t want a 2 state solution. They’ve rejected this over and over. If Trump can works diplomatic magic and make it happen then excellent. But it simply isn’t true that the Palestinians have been battling for a 2 state solution all these years. And Hamas are going nowhere, they’re currently holding summary executions in the streets (no marches about that though)

TheSillyCrab · 13/10/2025 14:22

TomeTome · 13/10/2025 00:04

I wonder what will happen when Israelis and their supporters have to acknowledge the enormity of what they did? It will not be possible to hide behind these bizarre fabrications forever. The evidence will be overwhelming.

They won't ever acknowledge it.

PurpleThistle7 · 13/10/2025 14:22

I've never actually heard anyone explain what they think Israel (or any other country) 'should' do if crazed terrorist thugs come running over their border raping and murdering and kidnapping. We have seen endless examples of the carnage that happened at other points in history when this happens, and we talk about it very differently than this situation is being talked about - for obvious reasons.

I'm sure any normal person would think that violence shouldn't happen and war is terrible and catastrophic... but in reality it exists and if someone comes to murder my children, I'm not going to apologise for existing and walk myself into the sea. The whole concept of land ownership and borders and citizenship is really confusing and filled with contradiction, but it's still real and countries still have to defend themselves against anyone trying to annihilate them.

Add to this that Hamas runs on violence and fear and it's an impossible situation to get through. They still won't even recognise Israel as a country so how on earth do you start a conversation about saying sorry for all the rape and murder?

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 14:24

TicklishMauveSquid · 13/10/2025 14:13

They really desperately now want us NOT to believe what we see (healthy looking, clean clothed, fresh hair cuts) when a few weeks ago they wanted us to to believe what could be seen in the pictures of emancipated babies and children who had undisclosed medical conditions.

It is perverse in the extreme!

People should be really insulted by how dumb the Hamas propaganda machine thinks they are.

Look, I’m torn on this one. I can absolutely believe hunger and malnutrition can happen in virtually any long term conflict as you would expect disrupted supply chains even where hunger isn’t used as a weapon of war. I’ve seen photos of of starving individuals but it would be perfectly logical to assume even those not in the end stages of malnutrition are by this point thin and hungry looking. Yet none seem to be. Can anyone answer this without calling me an Israeli stooge?

Pasly · 13/10/2025 14:25

Gloriia · 13/10/2025 14:12

No hate or vitriol just facts. It was not a holocaust or a gencide and those who have peddled the hamas tales should be ashamed.

Gaza will have a massive amount of funding to rebuild. Let's hope they don't blow it all on weapons and tunnels as they did previously. I wouldn't bet on it though.

No hate or vitriol just facts.
Yet to see any facts from you!!

It was not a holocaust
No one said it was. Genocide is the internationally recognised term

Pasly · 13/10/2025 14:28

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 14:24

Look, I’m torn on this one. I can absolutely believe hunger and malnutrition can happen in virtually any long term conflict as you would expect disrupted supply chains even where hunger isn’t used as a weapon of war. I’ve seen photos of of starving individuals but it would be perfectly logical to assume even those not in the end stages of malnutrition are by this point thin and hungry looking. Yet none seem to be. Can anyone answer this without calling me an Israeli stooge?

Have you seen pictures of the entire population? Or just those well enough to be out on the streets? Why are you basing your understanding of something on a few pictures can you not interpret the data from the experts?

https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/news-releases/gaza-unrwa%E2%80%99s-lancet-study-reveals-alarming-surge-child-malnutrition

HellsBalls · 13/10/2025 14:30

Pasly · 13/10/2025 14:08

I wouldn't bother you would think on day that has seen the safe return of the remaining living hostages the hate and vitriol might stop but it's too entrenched.

Yep, the pro-Palestinian supporters are bordering on deranged.
You’d think they would happy Big Don has forced a ceasefire on both sides.

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 14:30

As for the enormity of destruction -

It depends on how justified you think they are after Oct 7. Britain was justified in going to war with Germany despite the fact they had not harmed any of our civilians or touched our land. We inflicted mass devastation on them not because we were bloodthirsty animals but because we had to force them into submission and end the war as quickly as we could.

In any conflict, a neat operation which effectively isolates only combatants is nearly impossible. I actually can’t think of any conflict where civilians haven’t been killed. And in any event, they would have to repeat the very same operation 10 years later at most as new people replace the old. Mass destruction is, I suppose, a ‘deterrent’ and means their capabilities are mostly destroyed for longer than it takes them to regroup.

I do often wonder what posters think the response should’ve been had Oct 7 somehow happened to the UK. Jewish lives are cheap to many and should always be overlooked ‘for the sake of peace’. They probably have a fuckton of inter generational trauma from the Holocaust and this can’t be downplayed.

Gloriia · 13/10/2025 14:32

Pasly · 13/10/2025 14:25

No hate or vitriol just facts.
Yet to see any facts from you!!

It was not a holocaust
No one said it was. Genocide is the internationally recognised term

Loads of gazans pictured saying 'I survived a holocaust'. Obviously bollocks as well as deeply offensive for Jewish people.

Hamas lie, they are bad people. Just because the UN believe them doesn't mean you have to.

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 14:33

HellsBalls · 13/10/2025 14:30

Yep, the pro-Palestinian supporters are bordering on deranged.
You’d think they would happy Big Don has forced a ceasefire on both sides.

I feel like whatever happens they won’t be happy. I think Netanyahu needs to face the ICC, but I just know if the verdict was ‘behaviour not perfect but falls below threshold of war criminal’ they will just dismiss the court as an Israeli stooge. I’ve given up- they’re fully ingrained in their side of the drama triangle.

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 14:34

Pasly · 13/10/2025 14:28

Have you seen pictures of the entire population? Or just those well enough to be out on the streets? Why are you basing your understanding of something on a few pictures can you not interpret the data from the experts?

https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/news-releases/gaza-unrwa%E2%80%99s-lancet-study-reveals-alarming-surge-child-malnutrition

I have seen probably 50+ videos of celebrating Gazans, which is lovely to see. Probably 20 or 30 in each one, and none look emaciated. This isn’t a trick question - why are they not all quite thin even if not starving? They look very healthy.

Gloriia · 13/10/2025 14:35

Anyway. 20 innocent people home and safe which is brilliant news, sadly bodies of those murdered seem to have been mislaid.
Hundreds of murderers released back into gaza. What can possibly go wrong.

Pasly · 13/10/2025 14:35

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 14:33

I feel like whatever happens they won’t be happy. I think Netanyahu needs to face the ICC, but I just know if the verdict was ‘behaviour not perfect but falls below threshold of war criminal’ they will just dismiss the court as an Israeli stooge. I’ve given up- they’re fully ingrained in their side of the drama triangle.

Ah I took your previous post, which I responded to, in good faith but it clearly wasn't

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 14:37

Pasly · 13/10/2025 14:35

Ah I took your previous post, which I responded to, in good faith but it clearly wasn't

Why isn’t it? More likely you just need an excuse to sidestep.

Puppycrate · 13/10/2025 14:39

SameOldHill · 12/10/2025 23:07

We don’t. People need to push for real change in Gaza and the West Bank, for better conditions, rights and a decent state for Palestinians so we don’t repeat the cycle 15 years later.

And we need to push for justice so the Israeli leaders realise that they can’t commit such heinous acts and just go back to governing as if nothing happened.

From a personal standpoint I’ll never forget how the world leaders looked away, ignored their own people and made a mockery of international law.

Yes it’s a stark observation to make but ‘never again’ really didn’t mean much sadly did it. Instead it was ‘look away’.

Much like how I imagine a nato response would be if one member was attacked - it wouldn’t be an all out like for like retaliation would be an ‘oh dear collateral damage we won’t escalate and cause ww3’ likewise the theory of MAD would be a similar pathetic response by the rich in their bunkers ‘oh dear well we won’t retaliate and obliterate the earth we will save the planet and not bomb back’ (in other words keeping something for themselves.

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 14:43

Puppycrate · 13/10/2025 14:39

Yes it’s a stark observation to make but ‘never again’ really didn’t mean much sadly did it. Instead it was ‘look away’.

Much like how I imagine a nato response would be if one member was attacked - it wouldn’t be an all out like for like retaliation would be an ‘oh dear collateral damage we won’t escalate and cause ww3’ likewise the theory of MAD would be a similar pathetic response by the rich in their bunkers ‘oh dear well we won’t retaliate and obliterate the earth we will save the planet and not bomb back’ (in other words keeping something for themselves.

What are your thoughts on Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo?

Jujujudo · 13/10/2025 15:05

queenofarles · 13/10/2025 12:39

I know what’s happening right now in Gaza ,
factions are fighting each other , that’s what happens at the end of every war it happened in Syria , Iraq. and I don’t need to wait for the future, we’ve seen it live on TV for two whole years .

but what I don’t understand why no one wants to admit the atrocities that accrued in the last two years , all the vindication and justification or worse
total dismissal of all the death and destruction

I don’t understand the death of Hind rajab, I don’t understand the flour massacre , I don’t understand the Al-Tabaeen School massacre , the bombings of WCK convoy , the St. Porphyrius church massacre , the GHF Aid massacre the siege of Al shifaa hospitals , the abandoning and tragic death of NICU babies.

can you give a valid explanation ? These are at safe "zones" by the way.

I guess the gazans who joined in the massacre of Israelis and celebrated in the streets and who kept hostages as slaves in their homes and didn’t make sure their children had shelters are to blame. I’m done with my sympathy. Am Israel chai!

Jujujudo · 13/10/2025 15:07

DancefloorAcrobatics · 13/10/2025 12:53

I understand enough about this conflict to know that it didn't start on 7/10/ 2023.
I also understand that Israel has had an aggressive expansion policy long before Hamas came into existence in the late 1980's.
This conflict is old and lines are blurred on both sides... Israel has its aggressive settlement politics and the Palestinians have a terrorist organisation.

Caught in the middle are civilians who just want to get on with their lives!

The region has an interesting history, it's worth exploring in order to understand how we got to today.

Again sorry but referring to Jews in Palestinian terrorists as aggressive settlers says it all. You’re ok with a state which is Judenfrei then? That refers to Jews that want to live there as settlers not citizens? Get outta here

HellsBalls · 13/10/2025 15:17

Gloriia · 13/10/2025 14:35

Anyway. 20 innocent people home and safe which is brilliant news, sadly bodies of those murdered seem to have been mislaid.
Hundreds of murderers released back into gaza. What can possibly go wrong.

Yes. We are back to square one really, only with thousands dead in the meantime.
The end of this cycle of violence is just the beginning of the next.

DrPrunesqualer · 13/10/2025 15:22

Here’s another article on why Israel have destroyed Gaza
This from a reporter whose family owned an Olive Grove
Uprooted by Israeli bulldozers….were Hamas in the trees?!!
No but Palestinian lives were

“Gaza will be in the shadow of famine as long as we cannot plant our land
Israel destroyed or made inaccessible 98.5 percent of Gaza’s agricultural land. My family’s olive grove is part of it.”

By Said Alsaloul
Published On 13 Oct

“ From above, Gaza looks like a grey desert of rubble, its vibrant urban spaces reduced to ghost towns, its lush agricultural land and greenery wiped out.

The occupier’s aim was not only to render the Palestinians of Gaza homeless but also unable to provide for themselves. Uprooting the dispossessed and impoverished, those who have lost their connection to the land, is of course much easier.

This was the goal when Israeli tanks and bulldozers entered my family’s plot of land in the eastern part of Maghazi refugee camp and uprooted 55 olive trees, 10 palms and five fig

Seven families – we, friends and neighbours – benefited from the fruit and wood of that land.
One day in late August, a friend of mine called me with a terrible rumour he had heard: the Israeli tanks and bulldozers had advanced into the eastern part of Maghazi and levelled it all, uprooting trees and burying them. I gasped; our lifeline was gone.

Days later, the rumour was confirmed. The Israeli army had uprooted more than 600 trees in the area, mostly olive trees. Those who had fled from the area shared what they had seen. What was once a lush green stretch of land had been bulldozed into a yellow, lifeless desert.

Earlier in August, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) reported that 98.5 percent of Gaza’s agricultural land had been damaged or made inaccessible. I guess the destruction of our plot shrank that 1.5 percent even further.

Israel has rendered us fully dependent on aid, and it is the sole power that determines if, when and how much of it enters Gaza. Per the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification, 100 percent of Palestinians in Gaza experience some level of food insecurity.
Much of Gaza’s agricultural land remains out of reach, as Israel has withdrawn from just a part of the Gaza Strip. My family will have to wait for the implementation of the third phase of the ceasefire deal – if Israel agrees to implement it at all – to see the Israeli army withdraw to the buffer zone and regain access our land.

We have now lost our land twice. Once in 1948 and now again in 2025. Israel wants to repeat history and dispossess us again. It must not be allowed to convert more Palestinian land into buffer zones and national parks.
Getting back our land, rehabilitating and planting it is crucial not just for our survival, but also for maintaining our connection to the land. We must resist uprooting.”

views of the author
Interesting that he has picked up the damage the proposed wide buffer zones will do to Gazans ability to survive independently.

We’ll have to see how that overall plans works out for everyone in the coming months

This article yet again indicates the nonsense that Israel were ‘defending themselves’

Said Alsaloul | Al Jazeera News | Today's latest from Al Jazeera

Said Alsaloul

https://www.aljazeera.com/author/said-alsaloul

EmpressoftheMundane · 13/10/2025 15:26

TicklishMauveSquid · 13/10/2025 14:13

They really desperately now want us NOT to believe what we see (healthy looking, clean clothed, fresh hair cuts) when a few weeks ago they wanted us to to believe what could be seen in the pictures of emancipated babies and children who had undisclosed medical conditions.

It is perverse in the extreme!

People should be really insulted by how dumb the Hamas propaganda machine thinks they are.

The Hamas propaganda machine doesn’t have to good. They just need to give people an excuse to believe what they already want to believe.

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