Feel like once the hostages are handed over Israel will start bombing again

[Wakeuplittlebunnies]

It seems too good to be true, a final end to the war.

After all the plans that were announced with regards to annexation and the Israeli far-right government members, I can’t help but feel that once all of the hostages are released Israel will go ham on Gaza.

There will be nothing to stop them bombing everywhere.

No hostages to avoid bombing.

No families pleading with the Israeli ministers.

Israel has broken so many ceasefires and this was with the hostages lives at stake.

I don’t know, but I can’t celebrate with everyone as I don’t believe it will last and my heart says that’s it’s going to get worse.

No not poor Hamas.

As things stand there are two sides sat at the table to negotiate, neither side want to negotiate.

Israel will cynically enter these negotiations because either way they stand to gain.

In very simple terms I'll put it to you so you understand. Israel has been instrumental in putting together the Trump peace plan. Netanyahu is as much its author as Trump.

Secondly Hamas have no choice. And as things stand they have stated they will step away from politics but will not disarm. They have declared openly that they will only hand over their weapons once a fully independent Palestinian state capable of its own sel defence has been established. Netanyahu has openly declared for many years that he will never allow an independent state of Palestine to exist. Many in Israel agree with him that a Palestinian state would be a threat to Israel.

So nope, I'm not an emotionally led intellectually stunted allypally. I believe Israel has a right to exist, be self determined and have security, since the UN declared it such. It has a legal right to exist. However Israel will need to take a leap of faith and allow the Palestinians an autonomous state. The only other solution is an extension of 'war,' one it has been waging for 80 years.

The thinking has been that the apartheid conditions on the West bank with increasing land grabs along with inflicting the cruelty of the Gaza concentration camp would slowly over time displace and make life intolerable and impossible. It has, hence the violence on the 7th.

Yes, Israel has a right to defend itself, but occupied people have a right and moral duty to defend and liberate themselves.

I could use jurisprudence to argue this has not been a war at all. Not since the 60s. Since then it has been a plan to extinguish people within an occupied territory.

Israel lives in fear of defending itself against an equal and will not allow the Palestinian people to have a state. The cynic in me wonders why only now have the UK and the rest of the world acknowledged in its absence the state of Palestine. No such thing exists. And to relabel a people a state does not exonerate the aggressor of its war crimes. It remains ethnic cleansing and genocide irrespective of whether jurisprudence is used to argue it a war between nations or state carrying out ethnic cleansing within what it illegally occupies.

My feeling is this won't be resolved any time soon. I do not trust Trumps motives.

From a Marxist perspective, there is a lot of value creation in destruction and redevelopment, and for many years Palestinian reserve labour was useful to Israel. It is now no longer useful nor disciplined. And this strange redevelopment plan solves this issue!

Fine I'll rephrase only 8% of buildings in Gaza have been left undamaged we have no idea whether any of the damaged buildings are structurally safe to inhabit.

Where does it say only blown out windows?

I will rephrase for you too. Only 8% of buildings in Gaza have been left undamaged. We have no idea how many damaged buildings are structurally safe to inhabit. Buildings left standing in the middle of rubble are highly unlikely to have stable foundations.

Maybe you think that sounds better, it still seems a pretty shocking statistic to me.

It’s sweet the way you patronise other people too but you are deflecting. Israel must release 250 people serving life sentences. What sort of people do you suppose might be serving life sentences? Terrorists? Yes?

In which case if they have to release 250 of them where does that leave your insistence that Isreal won’t release the named prisoners because they are terrorists?

but because you know that counters your point you choose to denigrate and name call people as apologists and sympathisers for terrorists.

Even amongst the terrorist class serving life sentences there are obviously some worse than others.

Hamas can surely find 250 that aren’t serving multiple life sentences and haven’t killed a minister or anything equally dramatic.

In case anyone thinks I'm suggesting that people who support the cause of the Palestinians are too emotional or intellectually stunted, I am not. I am fed up with Pro Isreal supporters speaking to everyone as though they are. The vast majority of people are rightly horrified at Isreals actions. And for many Israel can never be rehabilitated and its crimes forgotten.

Oh come on. I was giving you an example of something that would class as 'damage' not 'destroyed'. Could we try to keep to facts? I never understand why people want an already awful situation to be even worse.

Really. Israel can never be 'rehabilitated'? What exactly do you mean?

Maybe it's because the pro-Israeli lot constantly try and minimise the utter horror and destruction that Israel have inflicted on Gaza.

If anyone is seriously in doubt about the destruction of Gaza then read and watch. Drone footage since the ceasefire started - tbh even thought i knew the extent of the damage I still found the footage shocking.

https://news.sky.com/story/drones-capture-staggering-images-of-gaza-devastation-as-people-find-nothing-left-13448708

The more you see of Gaza, the more impossible the task seems of rebuilding this place. The devastation is so utterly overwhelming.
Bodies are being found in the rubble while towns are full of buildings that have been so badly damaged they will have to be pulled down.
Humanitarian aid is needed urgently, but, for the moment, the entry points remain closed. Charities are pleading for access.
It is, of course, better for people to live without war than with it. Peace in Gaza gifts the ability to sleep a little better and worry a little less. But when people do wake up, what they see is an apocalyptic landscape of catastrophic destruction.

I said "for many" read it again.

I've made a mental note that you haven't taken apart my argument to which my second post was a footnote.

Has Isreal been waging a war? Is this a clear cut case of war? or it as I argue the ethnic cleansing and genocide of people in occupied land?

I acknowledge Isreals right to exist, (as per the UN resolution) do you acknowledge that Isreal has resolved to ensure that no such right exists for Palestinians because they fear a 'war' against an established autonomous state of Palestine? and that is precisely why 80 years later they are still engaged in a slow genocide and project to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the west bank. one an occupied territory, the other a hermetically sealed refugee camp.

Ok you've saved me the bother of replying to you. Thanks

I am sticking to the facts can you point out where I am not? You are using blown out windows as an example of damage I am suggesting that damaged buildings left standing in bomb sites are likely to have structurally unsound foundations. What's good for the goose!

8% of buildings in Gaza have been left undamaged that is a shocking statistic. I don't think it's a stretch to assume of the 92% destroyed or damaged buildings are structurally unsound, do you?

A house on my mum's estate was damaged in a gas explosion. The two houses either side which were left "undamaged" also had to be raised to the ground because they were deemed structurally unsafe from the blast. Are you incapable of critical thinking?

I never understand why people want an already awful situation to be even worse
"Oh come on" this is not what I'm doing I am pointing out how awful the situation is and not trying to minimise how bad things are. I personally think 92% of buildings destroyed or damaged is shocking but you prefer to focus on "only destroyed" and use blown out windows as an example of what destroyed may be, you do you.

I'm pretty sure everyone, especially hamas, expected it.
They're one of the most powerful militaries in the world, if the uk had the same scale terrorist attack followed by continued attacks and a pledge to remove us from the map I can't imagine we'd respond any differently. And I'm sure the US would respond in a far more catastrophic way.
Hopefully the ceasefire will last, but I would imagine considering the majority of the decision makers in hamas aren't in gaza its likely they'll continue to try and trigger conflict.
Hopefully this time is used to relocate as many refugees as possible, as I think it's very unlikely hamas is actually destroyed to a level where they'll stop.

It's par the course for many who defend Israel, to minimise, minimise and minimise.

Someone will be mentioning how upsetting it is how many children have been killed and a pro-Israeli poster will come along to tell you it's ONLY (insert a percentage of choice) this many children.

No, keeping things loosely linked to facts is not minimising. The facts are bad enough.

You really should research why so much of Gaza has been destroyed if you want to have a honest debate.

Enlighten me

They’ll just say it’s AI or its a small part and it’s fake etc etc bla bla bla

It isn't just a case of to what extent or what percentage of buildings have been destroyed. Its the fact that there will be unexploded ordinance, disease from the bodies of those dead under the rubble and other toxins. There are estimates that it could take until 2050 to clear the rubble. It really isn't just a few windows blown out.

Careful no space for logical reasoning here, unless it is spelt out to us it isn't happening. Black and white thinking only please