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Conflict in the Middle East

Israel has ordered the whole of north Gaza to evacuate

128 replies

IGaveSoManySigns · 09/09/2025 10:12

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czx05061vz9t

I don’t know why they act like this is the right thing to do. If you say "I'm going to stab someone", and then do it, it's still murder.

Israeli military orders 'all residents' of Gaza City to evacuate immediately - latest

Israel's security cabinet last month approved a plan to take control of the city, where hundreds of thousands of Palestinians reside.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czx05061vz9t

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
quantumbutterfly · 09/09/2025 13:56

The great march of return.
I can only imagine how Pakistan might react to several thousand descendants of those displaced by partition trying to return.

PaxAeterna · 09/09/2025 14:16

From what I’m reading and seeing, I think many Palestinians are feeling utterly hopeless. They feel they will die whether they stay or leave.

letmethrough · 09/09/2025 14:21

None of you responding points make any sense to me as to why you have such partisanship and bias, so lets take them one by one.

Maybe because I see the massive power imbalance
This is a terrible argument that a whole book could be written in response to. But its so common from people with your perspective. And I think this simple victim/ oppressor narrative without really examining what is really going on is behind a lot of 'nice' pro-Palestinian protestors. It doesn't really answer the question though of why you have never cared about the expulsion of nearly a million Jews from Arab and muslim countries in the mid 20th century but do care about what you call the Nakba. After all, 100's of thousands of Jews who were terrorised and expelled were not the ones with the power, were they? There was a massive power imbalance against them. And the ONLY reason Israel has not been flattened is because it has the Iron Dome to defend it. Do you honestly think it is an unfair power imbalance that Israel has greater capacity to defend itself from the 10's of thousands of rocket attacks launched at it as it fights on seven fronts of aggressors? Because, if you do that is irrational. And there is no international law that says wars need to be between two equal parties. But again, Hamas chose to knowingly start the war against a stronger enemy. And the responsibility for that lies with Hamas.

And this is not a war against Israel and Gaza. People frame it like that for propaganda purposes against Israel. This is a war in the middle east against a collaboration of enemies and states seeking to completely destroy Israel. So you are only against Israel as they have managed not to be destroyed so must have all the power? Again, that is irrational.

maybe because I don’t like seeing a civilian population starved?
No one does but Israel has supplied enough food for the population (of the government who is trying to destroy it) but Hamas are actively working to stop that succeeding as they need to control the supply of food to maintain control and to raise money, and to ensure their own fighters are well fed ( they steal the food and sell it to their own people, they can restrict food to those who don't support them). Hamas have not even sheltered their citizens in the 450 mile of tunnel networks. Its not that they don't care about their own citizen's suffering, they actively need it to advance their cause, and they are not even really trying to hide this fact. Blame Hamas.

Maybe because I don’t like seeing 20, 000 children slaughtered Again, no-one does, but again, blame Hamas for starting the war and then not sheltering its citizens in existing tunnel networks, as every other government would have done. Israel have made far more effort to protect the children of Gaza in the pursuit of this war than Hamas have. They have provided warnings, food and I believe even a polio vaccination programme. And they didn't start the war, Hamas did, by murdering babies and children as it happens.

Maybe because I have seen Israel’s response to peaceful Palestinian protests? Israel is a democracy where there is freedom of speech and freedom of protest. Did you read what Hamas did to the Gazans who a few months back held some protests against Hamas?

Maybe because I have teenage sons and I don’t like seeing boys the same age imprisoned without trial or shot by snipers with impunity?
I have boys too. I can't bear the thought of what it must have been like for the mothers of children when Hamas came to slaughter them, in a racist attack on October 7th. They tied parents and children together with wire and set them alight. To start a war, and to bring war onto their own children - who they then did not shelter, and who they stole food from..

i don’t know why do you not care about these things?
Why do you think I don't care? Why do people with your views think that anyone like me who doesn't blindly put all the fault at Israel's door doesn't care? This desire to believe I don't care is an attempt the dehumanise me. We should all be on guard against the willingness to dehumanise others. As Israel is being dehumanised. I do care. I care very much about what is happening to Israelis and to Palestinians. I just disagree with you about where the blame lies. And I see the complete wiping out of Hamas of the narrative and responsibility for what is happening as a blatant and unjust prejudice against Israel. And I am furious with Hamas for all the suffering they have caused and I really don't understand why the pro-Palestinians are not.

MissyB1 · 09/09/2025 14:38

TreesTreesBeesBees · 09/09/2025 13:19

You accuse people of sitting and watching. Unless you are there helping you are also like everyone else unable to do anything.

Protest for the hostages to be released. Protest for Hamas to go. Then the conflict of this current war on hamas must end. Then call for better leaders for Gazan that will urge peaceful solutions. Equally, Israel must also elect leaders for peace.

Otherwise everything is just noise on here.

Oh really? We should all either be in Gaza or just shut up and look the other way - seriously??! You look the other way if thats the kind of person you are, meanwhile many of us won't shut up, we don't need to be in Gaza to make our voices heard. I have writtent o my MP many times, I make my voice as loud as possible, many of us protest on the streets (despite our Government hating us for that). We must keep shouting and not be silenced.

The hostages are suffering from Israel's actions too by the way, their families know that, that's why they and many other Israeli's have been out protesting too. It's fair to say Netanyahu has never prioritised the hostages lives.

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 15:00

Israel has intentionally not provided enough aid, even long prior to October 7th Israel was restricting aid entering Gaza

Israel knows how much food is needed. It has been calibrating hunger in Gaza for decades, initially calculating shipments to exert pressure.

“The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger,” a senior adviser to the then prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said in 2006

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/31/the-mathematics-of-starvation-how-israel-caused-a-famine-in-gaza

Gaza on brink of implosion as aid cut-off starts to bite

The end of Western funding and Israel's crossing closure sharpen Palestinian divisions, reports Conal Urquhart in Gaza City.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/apr/16/israel

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 15:03

data compiled and published by Israel’s own government makes clear that it has been starving Gaza. Between March and June, Israel allowed just 56,000 tonnes of food to enter the territory, Cogat records show, less than a quarter of Gaza’s minimum needs for that period.
Even if every bag of UN flour had been collected and handed out, and the GHF had developed safe systems for equitable distribution, starvation was inevitable. Palestinians did not have enough to eat.

There is no evidence of significant Hamas interference with aid
www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/usaid-analysis-found-no-evidence-massive-hamas-theft-gaza-aid-2025-07-25/

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 15:07

Regarding polio vaccinations. Diseases don’t respect borders
The WHO says as long as a single child remains infected, children in all countries are at risk of getting polio, because the virus can easily be imported into a polio-free country.

not sure even Israel could get away with reviving polio

letmethrough · 09/09/2025 15:07

The hostages are suffering from Israel's actions too by the way, their families know that, that's why they and many other Israeli's have been out protesting too

@MissyB1

This is victim blaming of the most base and disgusting kind. It is shameful. The hostages are suffering because they were taken hostage by Hamas. The hostages are suffering because of the physical and mental and emotional torture they are being subjected to by their terrorist captors - have you troubled yourself to listen to the accounts of any of the freed hostages? They are suffering because of Hamas' actions not Israel's. Yes, there are disagreements amongst Israelis about the best course of action to secure their release, and, unlike in Gaza, the citizens are free to protest the government which why you know about the dissent. (Gazans have never had this freedom under their dictatorship government, and desperate Gazans who recently tried to protest Hamas were brutalised by Hamas for doing so to warn off future potential protestors).

But the ONLY reason the hostages are suffering is due to Hamas. Hamas could end their suffering at any time by releasing them ( well actually they couldn't, these people will be traumatised for life and some of them will be released to news that their loved ones were massacred by Hamas).

Absolutely shameful that you would seek to blame Israel for the hostages' suffering. What blatant racism to blame victims of racism for their own suffering. Shame, shame on you.

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 15:09

Israel has not shown any concern for Palestinian children being paralysed, Gaza now being home to the largest cohort of child amputees. Over 50, 000 children killed or injured so far forgive me if I don’t consider allowing a vaccination programme for a highly transmissible disease altruistic

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 15:23

Each year, between 500 and 700 Palestinian children are detained and prosecuted by the Israeli military court, that systematically lack the basic safeguards required for a fair trial. For the moment of arrest, these children are exposed to widespread and institutionalised ill-treatment, torture, including physical violence, blindfolding, sleep deprivation and prolonged isolation. Israeli authorities routinely deny fundamental protection and guarantee of conceding the right to a fair trial, rendering nearly every instance of detention arbitrary in nature.

mids2019 · 09/09/2025 15:26

letmethrough · 09/09/2025 14:21

None of you responding points make any sense to me as to why you have such partisanship and bias, so lets take them one by one.

Maybe because I see the massive power imbalance
This is a terrible argument that a whole book could be written in response to. But its so common from people with your perspective. And I think this simple victim/ oppressor narrative without really examining what is really going on is behind a lot of 'nice' pro-Palestinian protestors. It doesn't really answer the question though of why you have never cared about the expulsion of nearly a million Jews from Arab and muslim countries in the mid 20th century but do care about what you call the Nakba. After all, 100's of thousands of Jews who were terrorised and expelled were not the ones with the power, were they? There was a massive power imbalance against them. And the ONLY reason Israel has not been flattened is because it has the Iron Dome to defend it. Do you honestly think it is an unfair power imbalance that Israel has greater capacity to defend itself from the 10's of thousands of rocket attacks launched at it as it fights on seven fronts of aggressors? Because, if you do that is irrational. And there is no international law that says wars need to be between two equal parties. But again, Hamas chose to knowingly start the war against a stronger enemy. And the responsibility for that lies with Hamas.

And this is not a war against Israel and Gaza. People frame it like that for propaganda purposes against Israel. This is a war in the middle east against a collaboration of enemies and states seeking to completely destroy Israel. So you are only against Israel as they have managed not to be destroyed so must have all the power? Again, that is irrational.

maybe because I don’t like seeing a civilian population starved?
No one does but Israel has supplied enough food for the population (of the government who is trying to destroy it) but Hamas are actively working to stop that succeeding as they need to control the supply of food to maintain control and to raise money, and to ensure their own fighters are well fed ( they steal the food and sell it to their own people, they can restrict food to those who don't support them). Hamas have not even sheltered their citizens in the 450 mile of tunnel networks. Its not that they don't care about their own citizen's suffering, they actively need it to advance their cause, and they are not even really trying to hide this fact. Blame Hamas.

Maybe because I don’t like seeing 20, 000 children slaughtered Again, no-one does, but again, blame Hamas for starting the war and then not sheltering its citizens in existing tunnel networks, as every other government would have done. Israel have made far more effort to protect the children of Gaza in the pursuit of this war than Hamas have. They have provided warnings, food and I believe even a polio vaccination programme. And they didn't start the war, Hamas did, by murdering babies and children as it happens.

Maybe because I have seen Israel’s response to peaceful Palestinian protests? Israel is a democracy where there is freedom of speech and freedom of protest. Did you read what Hamas did to the Gazans who a few months back held some protests against Hamas?

Maybe because I have teenage sons and I don’t like seeing boys the same age imprisoned without trial or shot by snipers with impunity?
I have boys too. I can't bear the thought of what it must have been like for the mothers of children when Hamas came to slaughter them, in a racist attack on October 7th. They tied parents and children together with wire and set them alight. To start a war, and to bring war onto their own children - who they then did not shelter, and who they stole food from..

i don’t know why do you not care about these things?
Why do you think I don't care? Why do people with your views think that anyone like me who doesn't blindly put all the fault at Israel's door doesn't care? This desire to believe I don't care is an attempt the dehumanise me. We should all be on guard against the willingness to dehumanise others. As Israel is being dehumanised. I do care. I care very much about what is happening to Israelis and to Palestinians. I just disagree with you about where the blame lies. And I see the complete wiping out of Hamas of the narrative and responsibility for what is happening as a blatant and unjust prejudice against Israel. And I am furious with Hamas for all the suffering they have caused and I really don't understand why the pro-Palestinians are not.

Great post

wavingfuriously · 09/09/2025 15:28

In a few years time Gaza will be a riviera resort and the thousands that suffered and died will be forgotten. People are awful.

letmethrough · 09/09/2025 15:28

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 15:09

Israel has not shown any concern for Palestinian children being paralysed, Gaza now being home to the largest cohort of child amputees. Over 50, 000 children killed or injured so far forgive me if I don’t consider allowing a vaccination programme for a highly transmissible disease altruistic

Again, none of those children would have been paralysed if due to the war if Hamas had not started the war. And far, far fewer would have been injured if Hamas had sheltered the civilians in its tunnels. Russia is bombing the shit out of Ukrainian cities but they are not seeing anything like the casualities in Gaza (despite Russia not giving Ukrainians advance warnings of its strikes to help them get to safety, much like Hamas did not give Israeli citizens advance warning of October 7th) because Ukrainians can shelter in their underground. Much like Londoners did in WW2.

But you never respond to that or to any questions of Hamas's culpability, do you? You ignore everything which counters your desired narrative that Israeli is a murderous monster. Whilst never condemning Hamas who actually filmed themselves being murderous monsters.

Hence even counter evidence of Israel vaccinating Gazan children has to be pushed aside, with your frankly bizarre and incoherent post on this.

As for your starvation claims - have you ever watched the Ask Project? I suggest you do - then come back and tell me that Gazans have always been starving. As they clearly have not.

Part of the the current problems with supply of food have been due to UN refusing to distribute food. Enough food was provided to keep Gazans healthy but yet again Gazan civilians are forced to suffer to suit the political ends of others. You can see it in this thread, self proclaimed pro-Palestinians supporting Egypt not taking in women and children refugees as that would undermine their politicking on Palestine. Its inhumane.

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 15:30

Bulllshit again as you didn’t bother to read you cannot say you didn’t know
Israel has intentionally not provided enough aid, even long prior to October 7th Israel was restricting aid entering Gaza
Israel knows how much food is needed. It has been calibrating hunger in Gaza for decades, initially calculating shipments to exert pressure.
“The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger,” a senior adviser to the then prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said in 2006
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/31/the-mathematics-of-starvation-how-israel-caused-a-famine-in-gaza

Gaza on brink of implosion as aid cut-off starts to bite
The end of Western funding and Israel's crossing closure sharpen Palestinian divisions, reports Conal Urquhart in Gaza City.
https://www.theguardian.co

Gaza on brink of implosion as aid cut-off starts to bite

The end of Western funding and Israel's crossing closure sharpen Palestinian divisions, reports Conal Urquhart in Gaza City.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/apr/16/israel

dairydebris · 09/09/2025 15:34

If only Hamas had just accepted terms months ago, we wouldn't have to watch this.

But most importantly, a lot of people would still be alive.

Wish we could just skip to the bit where they surrender, or are completely destroyed. I can't imagine the utter despair of Gazan civilians right now.

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 15:34

Since the Hamas-led October 7, 2023, attacks in Israel, the Israeli government has deliberately blocked the delivery of aid, food, and fuel into Gaza, while impeding humanitarian assistance and depriving civilians of the means to survive. Israeli officials ordering or carrying out these actions are committing collective punishment against the civilian population and the starvation of civilians as a method of warfare, both of which are war crimes.

A family in a car drives passed destroyed buildings

Israel: Unlawful Gaza Blockade Deadly for Children

The Israeli government should immediately end its total blockade of the Gaza Strip that is putting Palestinian children and other civilians at grave risk.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/18/israel-unlawful-gaza-blockade-deadly-children

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 15:36

Anyone not opposing this is complicit. Try and blame Hamas all you like but Israel is responsible for it’s actions

Martymcfly24 · 09/09/2025 15:37

Isn't it fascinating how it can be a targeted strike on Hamas leaders in Doha but yet it requires 500lb bombs in Gaza. It's almost like they are targeting civilians.

My heart breaks for anyone trapped in Gaza City either by Hamas or by the fact they don't have the ability to be displaced again knowing that soon Israel will start rain down death on them.

dairydebris · 09/09/2025 15:44

Martymcfly24 · 09/09/2025 15:37

Isn't it fascinating how it can be a targeted strike on Hamas leaders in Doha but yet it requires 500lb bombs in Gaza. It's almost like they are targeting civilians.

My heart breaks for anyone trapped in Gaza City either by Hamas or by the fact they don't have the ability to be displaced again knowing that soon Israel will start rain down death on them.

Theyre targeting infrastructure and Hamas. Not civilians. They've just told them to evacuate. Again, its plausible deniabilty.

My head hurts too. Its just all so utterly pointless now. More waste of life coming.

I know we disagree on how this should be stopped but I wholeheartedly share your despair.

letmethrough · 09/09/2025 15:54

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 15:36

Anyone not opposing this is complicit. Try and blame Hamas all you like but Israel is responsible for it’s actions

You see, the reason I feel so strongly about this is because of what the response to October 7th has shown about how willingly people will dehumanise another group of people. As shown so pithily in the above post.

Look at how the responsibility of the terrorist, war starting, dictatorship is brushed aside. Explicit in the above post is the message that apportioning blame to Hamas for their deliberate and calculated actions throughout, is somehow a silly thing to do with a hidden agenda.

Instead the democratic country of Israel is dehumanised by refusing to allow any context for their actions and refusing to acknowledge how they are reacting to the actions of another player ( Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Houthis, all of whom are attacking, or aiding the attack, of Israel with the intent to destroy it completely - resulting in a genuine genocide of Jews). Israelis are dehumanised as the atrocities against them are simply unacknowledged, as are the continual rocket and terrorist attacks on them. Also unacknowledged is what will happen to the Jews of Israel if they do not succeed against those who wish to murder them all.

And this is how genuine atrocities and genocides happen. They do not happen because of a small number of very evil people. They happen because of the willingness of large sections of the population, people who think they are the good ones, to dehumanise others, to insist on simplistic narratives and to have a lack of curiosity which leads to a refusal to engage or consider any counter evidence to their dehumanising of others. This is how dehumanisation starts, this is what it looks like. And October 7th has shown me how we all need to be on guard against it and call it out.

Martymcfly24 · 09/09/2025 15:54

dairydebris · 09/09/2025 15:44

Theyre targeting infrastructure and Hamas. Not civilians. They've just told them to evacuate. Again, its plausible deniabilty.

My head hurts too. Its just all so utterly pointless now. More waste of life coming.

I know we disagree on how this should be stopped but I wholeheartedly share your despair.

Totally @dairydebris . And I know the order was given to evacuate but I imagine there's a feeling of I may as well die at home than in a tent or on the road.

What as waste of life is right, the people who will die in the coming days, the people on the bus yesterday. It just feels so pointless.

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 16:06

letmethrough · 09/09/2025 15:54

You see, the reason I feel so strongly about this is because of what the response to October 7th has shown about how willingly people will dehumanise another group of people. As shown so pithily in the above post.

Look at how the responsibility of the terrorist, war starting, dictatorship is brushed aside. Explicit in the above post is the message that apportioning blame to Hamas for their deliberate and calculated actions throughout, is somehow a silly thing to do with a hidden agenda.

Instead the democratic country of Israel is dehumanised by refusing to allow any context for their actions and refusing to acknowledge how they are reacting to the actions of another player ( Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Houthis, all of whom are attacking, or aiding the attack, of Israel with the intent to destroy it completely - resulting in a genuine genocide of Jews). Israelis are dehumanised as the atrocities against them are simply unacknowledged, as are the continual rocket and terrorist attacks on them. Also unacknowledged is what will happen to the Jews of Israel if they do not succeed against those who wish to murder them all.

And this is how genuine atrocities and genocides happen. They do not happen because of a small number of very evil people. They happen because of the willingness of large sections of the population, people who think they are the good ones, to dehumanise others, to insist on simplistic narratives and to have a lack of curiosity which leads to a refusal to engage or consider any counter evidence to their dehumanising of others. This is how dehumanisation starts, this is what it looks like. And October 7th has shown me how we all need to be on guard against it and call it out.

There is no context where genocide is permissible. I have expressed my abhorrence for the actions of Hamas on multiple occasions. Israel’s current actions need to be halted immediately

Everexpanding · 09/09/2025 16:07

This situation is not hopeless headway is being made through protests and contacting public representatives

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