Central Bank of Ireland confirms it will no longer approve sale of Israeli ‘war bonds’

[Everexpanding]

Good news. Political pressure, protests and letters beginning to work

www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/09/01/israel-to-market-war-bonds-through-luxembourg-as-irish-authority-expires/

Where in public is it being flown every day?

Highly unlikely that ANY government supplying arms to Israel will announce a genocide.

www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/global-complicity-uk-involvement-profiting-atrocity-and-enabling-israels-genocide

But you keep burying that head eh?

Not many states have declared it a genocide. Most countries like the UK & Germany are waiting for more evidence. The ones that have done so like Turkey, Egypt & Maldives tend to be Islamic states.

A handful of exceptions in Europe like Spain & Ireland.

Ireland as discussed on another thread have a long history of supporting Palestine against Israel since well before this conflict.

Or rather UK and Germany have supplied arms to Israel and would not want to be seen as complicit in supporting a genocide?

www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/berlin-risks-being-complicit-in-gaza-genocide-warns-former-german-envoy/3687712

Why do you have to wait for the UK government to call it a genocide before you will believe it? Can’t you decide for yourself, or do you need to be told what to think? Seems a bit weird.

It’s not just the UK and Germany though is it who aren’t calling it a genocide? Only a handful of non Islamic countries are.

I decide plenty of things for myself thank you. But in this case I recognise that I don’t have access to all the facts. I trust the UK government enough to believe they will categorise it as a genocide if and when sufficient evidence comes to light.

Please don’t imply I’m “weird” for trusting my government on this matter, but instead try debating without personal attacks.

It wasn’t a personal attack and i didn’t call you weird. I just find it weird that someone will follow the government so blindly that they won’t form their own opinion until the government has given the green light to call it genocide. But maybe that’s a me problem, not a you problem.

It fits their narrative so they will trust the UK government.

I would trust independent bodies such as Amnesty, Human rights watch, the Un committee of inquiry and Israeli human rights groups over any state which has been supplying arms to Israel, which both the Uk and Germany have been

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/28/middleeast/israeli-human-rights-group-accuses-israel-genocide-gaza-intl

My opinion at the moment is that it’s not a genocide but if the UK government recognised it as a genocide I would have to re-assess as I know they will have access to lots of information I don’t have.

Lots of opinions seem weird to me on these threads but I tend not to tell people their opinions seem weird. It’s basic manners really to accept we’re all different in our views.

The bodies you mention aren’t independent. And as mentioned above, not many countries do currently classify it as a genocide. The UK and Germany hold the majority view that it shouldn’t be classified as a genocide at the current time. Most countries in the world say it’s for the courts to decide after the war.

Countries like South Africa, Turkey, Egypt, Spain & Ireland are the outliers not the UK & Germany.

How do you define “independent international organisation”?

Here is a blog that describes the role of an independent international organisations
https://blog.ipleaders.in/role-independent-international-organisation-international-law/

This is reminding me of a conversation I had with my DH on terrorism and how he has his own personal definition of terrorism which is contrary to the accepted international definition of terrorism. This makes communicating almost impossible on the issue of terrorism.

So see here for a short summary on how the UN commission and UN HRC arrived at the conclusion of genocide:
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds?sub-site=HRC

[btw Germany is currently on the UN HRC…]

Not weird so much as strangely trusting in the UK PM.
Many in the UK Government have already said it is genocide.
Most notably imho, the human rights lawyers and high justices who would be most familiar with the legal threshold of genocide. In early 2024, more than 600 were warning our government that we need to stop arming Israel.

It wouldn’t be an individual decision of just one person- the UK PM - for the government to decide that Israel is committing a genocide. It would be a decision agreed by many people in government after studying all available evidence over a sufficient amount of time to ascertain Israel government intention.

What individuals think is not relevant. As we see on MN, individual opinions differ. Some lawyers across Europe call it genocide others call it a war (personal opinion). Nevertheless not many European countries have concluded it is a genocide at this moment in time - even France who are critical of Israel. And so ( going back to the original point raised), I don’t think it’s wrong for me to call it a war. Others are equally free to refer to it as a genocide if that is their opinion.

One who comes across as neutral & unbiased. This is not the UN if you look at their voting record against Israel compared to all the other countries that make up the UN.

Muslim countries in the UN in particular always vote against Israel as a matter of course so it’s hard to argue against bias in UN voting records.

I’m sure people understand that the US vote at the UN is not impartial - they are often criticised for supporting Israel. Neither are other countries unbiased. They all have allies & enemies which affects their voting records.

The UK government has not concluded it is not a genocide. But they have serious concerns about the way the war has been fought- I don’t think it would be their position that it’s just “war.”

They already have expressed serious concerns about the way Israel has fought the war in Gaza.

They suspended arms licenses due to clear risk of violations against international law in 2024 -

• UK assessment concludes there is a clear risk certain military exports to Israel might be used in violations of International Humanitarian Law

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-suspends-around-30-arms-export-licences-to-israel-for-use-in-gaza-over-international-humanitarian-law-concerns

This is Lammy’s statement about the obstruction of aid going into Gaza:

“More than 132,000 children under the age of five are at risk of dying from hunger by June of next year.
Madam Deputy Speaker, this is not a natural disaster.
It is a man-made famine, in the twenty-first century.
I am outraged by the Israeli government’s refusal to allow sufficient aid.”

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/foreign-secretary-statement-on-the-middle-east

Lammy called Israeli actions in Gaza as “monstrous”

“"We must call this what it is. It is extremism. It is dangerous. It is repellent. It is monstrous and I condemn it in the strongest possible terms."

https://news.sky.com/story/shouts-of-genocide-in-commons-as-david-lammy-denounces-israels-intolerable-actions-in-gaza-13371496

Wes Streeting felt Israel had to answer concerns about genocide:

“Mr Streeting told Times Radio: “When the president of the State of Israel comes to London this week, I think he needs to answer the allegations of war crimes, of ethnic cleansing and of genocide that are being levelled at the government of Israel.

“I think he needs to explain how, when we have seen so much evidence of the atrocities being perpetrated by the Israeli army, how he can possibly claim that the IDF (Israel Defence Forces) is the most moral army in the world.
“I think he should explain that, if it is not the intent of the government of Israel to perpetrate genocide or ethnic cleansing, how on earth does he think his Israeli government is going to achieve its stated aim of clearing Palestinians out of Gaza without the war crimes, without ethnic cleansing, or even without genocide?”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/wes-streeting-israel-gaza-keir-starmer-health-secretary-b2822876.html

I agree with you @Twiglets1 that the government will have more information than us- and they are clearly concerned about what Israel has done in Gaza. This has gone beyond fighting a war. Call that what you want.

Never denied that the UK government has serious concerns about the way the war is being conducted @Stripes56

But “genocide” is a very specific term, it doesn’t mean the same thing as war, brutal war etc.

I wouldn’t even call it a “brutal” war- wars still need to be done within international law - and they are raising concerns about this!

On that premises then @Twiglets1 I presume you are going to go with the government today and recognise Palestine as a sovereign state?

No I won’t be doing that as I consider it a performative gesture that won’t actually achieve anything. Will Palestine become a state because the UK recognises it? No, effectively nothing will change. The UK wouldn’t even be able to define the borders of the state they are recognising.

I do not wish to imply that I agree with the UK government on absolutely everything they do. But in the particular example of Genocide, I believe they will change their stance if enough evidence is found by the legal system and I also will change my stance if sufficient evidence is found for the UK to declare it a genocide.

Yes and it’s fair that they are raising concerns about this.

That’s a shame @Twiglets1. There is a petition going on in Israel that advocates a two state solution.

“Recognising a Palestinian state is not a punishment for Israel, but a step toward a safer and better future, based on mutual recognition and security for both peoples,” the petition reads.

It's not that I wouldn't like to see a two state solution one day, I would. Just not sure it's realistically possible unless and until a lot of things change. Certainly not feasible at the moment in my opinion, with Israel and Hamas at war and neither sides leaders wanting a 2 state solution.