So are MSF wrong about Gaza too?

[OneKookyShark]

I have read multiple posts both on here and on the CITME forum- and I am aware how toxic the debate is.

But surely when Legitimate and highly respected international NGO talks of ‘orchestrated killing and dehuminisation”, then it starts to become utterly undeniable?

I am sure someone will be along to tell me otherwise. I also note that Netenyahu has ordered a full occupation of Gaza city today.

“Médecins Sans Frontières calls for immediate closure of Gaza Humanitarian Foundation
The medical NGO Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) has called for the immediate closure of Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF), the US- and Israeli-backed aid organisation operating in Gaza, describing GHF-run food distribution sites in Gaza as having become sites of “orchestrated killing and dehumanisation”.
In a social media post on Thursday, MSF wrote:
“In MSF’s nearly 54 years of operations, rarely have we seen such levels of systematic violence against unarmed civilians.”
The GHF-run food distributions in Gaza, Palestine, have become sites of “orchestrated killing and dehumanisation”, not humanitarian aid.
In a new report, MSF analysed medical data, patients’ testimonies and first-hand medical witnesses at two MSF clinics in Gaza and found that it “point[ed] to both targeted and indiscriminate violence by Israeli forces and private American contractors against starved Palestinians” at food distribution sites run by the GHF”

I was saying to my dh that, in the absence of an international media presence, doctors are providing eyewitness testimony to the horrors that are going on. As a result, I wonder if the Israelis will stop letting them in.

Hi, OP. We've now moved your thread from AIBU to the CITME board, just to let you know.

Wow, can you link to that? It doesn’t really surprise me that much tbh

What reason does Israel have to trust Hamas?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNDqS7XOGg4/?igsh=MW4zczBvOHAxaTlv

By the way this chat has now been booted off the front page onto CITME. I have created a new post on AIBU asking MNHQ why they are discriminating against conversations about the genocide in Gaza

Anyone with a little bit of common sense knows that it is impossible that Hamas could be present in so many places. The goal for a long time has been to make Gaza uninhabitable. It was never a secret, Israel were clear that this was their goal. The people who say Hamas are hiding in every building know that it isn't true but they agree with Israels aims. They are actively trying to help Israel achieve them by trying to quieten condemnation for long enough for Israel to get the job done.

They said that they would destroy Gaza and they have while people made excuses for them. Now they say that they want to ethnically cleanse Gaza, they are open about planning on moving all of the population south in preparation and again we are seeing excuses for this. People know exactly what the aim is, they always have, they just happen to agree with it.

Retired Maj Gen Giora Eiland wrote in an Israeli newspaper on Oct 12 2023 that they would turn Gaza into “a place where no human being can exist”.

May Golan, minister for social equality said on Oct 7 2023 "All of Gaza’s infrastructures must be destroyed to its foundation and their electricity cut off immediately. The war is not against Hamas but against the state of Gaza,”

“Now we all have one common goal – erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the Earth” Nissim Vaturi, deputy speaker of the Israeli parliament, wrote on X on Oct 7 2023.
On Oct 9 2023 he also said that their goal was “To wipe out Gaza. Nothing else will satisfy us … Don’t leave a single child there, expel all the remaining ones in the end, so they have no chance of recovery.”

“Gaza won’t return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything,” then Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant, said in October 2023.

“There should be 2 goals for this victory: 1. There is no more Muslim land in the Land of Israel ... After we make it the land of IL, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom …”
The words of a member of the knesset in October 2023.

Meanwhile, all Gazans want Israel to remain intact, I presume?

Absolutely none but Israel is always held to the highest standard. Its oppressors can threaten to eradicate Israel and still come out smelling of roses.

If Israel claims to be a benign democracy it must be prepared to be judged by the standards all benign democracies are judged by.

Very informative post @GladioliGreen . I'm sure we can add even more voices called for the destruction of Gaza.

Seeing Netanyahu smirk as he blames the destruction in Hamas booby traps is sickening.

Even as Israel places ads seeking bulldozer drivers just to finish the job.

Judged yes, within reasonable boundaries, which don't negate the level of imminent danger. I mean, having your race slaughtered in a systematic, orchestrated manner, does tend to have an impact. Particularly when you know that slaughter only touched the surface of your enemy's intentions.

Hyperbolic last paragraph.

We have heard this kind of rhetoric from Israeli politicians too in an attempt to justify the destruction that would take place. These excuses were in play as far back as Oct 2023, the idea that Palestinians are the ones responsible for their own destruction, even the children, not the people dropping the 2000lb bombs in order to, in their own words, 'eliminate everything'.

"It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. it’s not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware not involved, it’s absolutely not true …” Isaac Herzog, Israel’s president, said at a press conference on 13 October.

“The children in Gaza have brought this upon themselves,” said Meirav Ben-Ari in the Knesset on 16 of October 2023.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/09/bulldzoer-gaza-genocide-idf-meta

Israeli politician Moshe Feiglin:

“Just as Hitler vowed to eliminate every Jew and said he couldn’t live as long as one Jew remained, I say: we cannot live in this land as long as one Muslim remains in Gaza. They must be eliminated.”

The Guardian - wouldn't expect any less.

So you're saying Israel isn't in danger from Islamic extremists - or are you saying, videoing slaughtering Israel's people, was a one off? The Gszan population aren't all civilians and I'm not just talking about Hamas.

Course you don't.

"There is none so blind as those who will not see"

Yinon Levy the extremist settler who murdered Umm al Kheir a few weeks ago and who is sanctioned by the UK, Canada and the EU owns a 'construction' company who are subcintracted by the Israeli government to demolish Gaza. Apparently he is working everyday in Gaza demolishing buildings, his lawyer used it as a reason why he shouldn't be under house arrest for his crime.

I agree, as I saw on the Palestine Action Group thread.

Stop. I did not know that.

Talk about laughing in people's faces.

I'm saying that nobody should make excuses for the purposeful destruction of the Gaza strip by pretending Hamas are hiding in every building. The goal was clear from the very beginning of this conflict. Make Gaza uninhabitable, eliminate everything.

No, but evidence suggests that the majority of Israeli and Palestinian citizens wanted a two state solution not that long ago. The figures on each side match pretty well throughout the years, sadly declining over time. In both societies, there are plenty of people who want peace and to just get on with their lives and then there are people who want hatred to win. And this is true in most places - extremism is an issue in the UK too. Thankfully, not in our government. Which is, I believe, a big factor in the conflict. Obviously, Hamas are extremists and have always led with terror (and their views shouldn’t be confused for the general consensus in Gaza). Meanwhile, there is a powerful and extremist group within the Israeli government that appears keen to destroy Gaza no matter what the consequences are.

I think it is also important to note that at this point especially there is such an imbalance of power between Israel’s govt. / army and their broader tech capabilities and Hamas - a terrorist group. Hamas can do horrendous acts like 7/10 but they can’t invade and flatten Israel with aerial strikes. So, at this point in time, Hamas’s aims are terrible but are less of a reality than the plans Netenyahu seems to be rolling out. Hamas can’t destroy Israel but Israel can destroy Gaza in its attempts to destroy Hamas.

If the self-proclaimed 'most moral army in the world' has nothing to hide, why don't they let international journalists into Gaza?

Hamas doesn't come out smelling of roses. It is an anti-semitic terrorist organisation and is guilty of the most disgusting and barbaric acts. But I expect the army of a first world country that we sell arms to, to be held to higher standards.