Palestine Action demo 9 August

[Beachtastic]

To my amazement, last night I discovered that some posters on MN think that "radical Islam" means simply "Muslim" 😬

I wonder if this explains why so many are unconcerned about who might be pulling the strings behind the "peace" rallies that were first organised on 7 October? Do they know what radical Islam is, how powerful it is, that it is widely acknowledged as the greatest threat to UK national security, that its intentions are clearly stated, that it is 10000000% different than simply observing Muslim faith?

Palestine Action are planning a rally in central London on Saturday and hope to overwhelm the police presence. Is anyone concerned about this? I'm worried that the seeds of civil unrest are being sown, without it being entirely clear who is sowing them.

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/met-police-palestine-action-protest-b1241347.html

Yes, I'm yet to be afraid of Jews / Jewish terrorism. Funny how the pro Israel protests aren't violent either

That's not how I see it, at all. You'd have to be a psychopath not to be heartbroken by images of dead and dying children. How can you not empathise with a population under siege? But please be wary of this sort of thing being used to manipulate your feelings. There is more than one population under siege, and both sides are powerful.

The reason I started this thread is that there seems to be an important blind spot among Western "pro-Palestinians" (for want of a better word; we are all driven crazy in all directions by this hideous conflict). The reason Hamas have been able to control the narrative on Western social media is by immediately presenting it as a long-overdue rebellion against Israeli domination. The Western mind is primed to understand this, but not the crude "religious" (actually a perversion of Islam) dogma that actually inspired the attack and that now continues to pose a threat... and perhaps not just to Israel.

We tend to view things in terms of oppressor and underdog, and without a full understanding of radical Islam (which is absolutely beyond our comprehension) it is easy to oversimplify the situation.

No... I hope I have explained myself clearly, but can't promise anything as I should really be in bed (and soon plan to be!) 😊

Thank you your reply and it's time for bed for me too! Its been a long day of babysitting (my own children 😭)

I completely understand there are two populations effected by all of this. It seems like I don't care Israelis but id like to see myself as a pacifist and wish no one would suffer due to power hungry men.

I just would like to make the point that my support of Palestinans is purely from a stop the killing perspective and I am not virtue signalling or being anti Israel.
I put Hamas and Netanyahu in the same category.

Where's the public support for Jews?

I totally get that. I'm just worried that the "stop the killing" messages are all rather one-way and without properly understanding what Israel is up against (and not just from Gaza), and knowing that the London rallies were initiated on 7 October, I wish people were slightly more wary of what else might be in play here. It is really, really hard to get our minds around a jihadi perspective because it is just so alien to our culture. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it doesn't matter, and it was a real eye-opener to me last night when I realised that a big piece of the jigsaw is missing for so many people. No wonder we all fight like cat and dog on here!!!!!!!!

I know you're coming from a good place. Sleep well (I know I'm going to!) 😊

Listen I totally agree. It's like text messages can be misconstrued I imagine if we were discussing this over a glass of wine the conversation would be different and much more common ground would be found
And yes I will honestly say I don't think about Israel is up against enough. And I also don't think about religion or other factors either.

Anyway go to bed!
Good night.

Yes I have observed this.

please see article in NY Times - headline below

The New York Times
May 26, 2025
No Proof Hamas Routinely tole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Officials Say
Natan Odenheimer

The NYT has been caught out before, with its biased reports.

If everyone was a lot more concerned about being British and holding to British values we would not have these division especially over a random country in the Middle East.

Sorry, but the only flag we should be waving on our soil is the British one.
Try waving another country flag in Saudi Arabia, you would be arrested immediately.

True.

Some absolutely fantastic posts @Beachtastic. I hope you got some sleep and woke fully refreshed. Talking of being refreshed, I've decided that it's pointless engaging with some posters and the faction they represent. I wouldn't spend my time in my world, expending so much valuable energy, so why am doing it here? I'm getting back to my watercolour painting, today. This isn't about me though. It's about a section of any society, who want to maintain a divide. If I cba to research many of those PAG advocates, I could guarantee they would have been at the BLM/TransActual/stop deportations/environmental rallies and more. They don't really care about the cause, it's about saying fuck you to the establishment. They are dangerous because, their witting or unwitting participation, as I've said before, helps terrorists in their agenda of painting their mission as freedom fighters. Those same 'freedom' fighters, whose only freedom they are interested in is their own - n the name of Islamic dominance. The constant use of dehumanising/starving Palestians - how often do we see it on here? Genocide/illegal settlers etc. How fast did all of those phrases catch on? Its simple: there are two types of participants in this war - the real actors and the audience. I often think the audience has been given a script, akin to a concert programme. It's startling to see how this brainwashing is working. Hamas and its ilk, build cults. As you say, they thrive on transmitting selective info/images because, quite frankly, they know how soft the west is. I will continue to support the community, who is fucked over left, right and centre and who STILL is expected to lie down and take it. I'm swearing, because I'm so bloody angry BUT when what's going to happen, does happen, I know I will be one of those, who is prepared for it.

Yes @Dangermoo, but I'm quite excited about having identified this major gap in the puzzle. It explains such a lot.

It means that discussions on the CITME board have been a bit like discussing WW2 without any grasp of the general rise of fascism in Germany, Italy, Hungary, Spain and Japan (just need to transpose that on to Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Kuwait, Algeria, Libya, Qatar, and arguably Turkey).

This would have been complicated further if the Nazis had just been a terrorist group unidentifiable by uniform and boosted by civilian mobs.

The nature of social media content is that it is controlled by the algorithms of what individuals have engaged with already, which is strongly exploited by Hamas and Hezbollah's sophisticated social media strategies.

It's no wonder people have such a skewed picture. If this thread can prompt even just one "pro-Palestinian" poster to research a little more into what's at stake here for Israel and possibly Europe, and understand the fascist threat unfolding right under our noses, then I can die happy (hopefully not just yet) 😀

www.csis.org/analysis/understanding-hamass-and-hezbollahs-uses-information-technology

Oh, and just sharing a link to show the impact of "radicalised" individuals in France (listing various attacks and their connection to the global jihad).

Even as Hamas has not targeted France historically, Hamas’ call to jihad may nonetheless have an impact in France. This may occur, not through its network and direct supporters, but through individuals engaged with other militant jihadi organisations who share common ideological grounds, and even those who may be isolated or lone actors. The situation seen in France is not so different then seen elsewhere in Europe, and practitioners should pay attention to how this current conflict is responded to by those who have been involved in jihadism historically, or may be willing to take up the jihadist cause in response to Hamas’ call.

https://icct.nl/publication/hamas-global-jihad-impact-france

I am done with acknowledging anything, which are hyperbolic, emotive driven clichés.

The names say it all. Useful idiots.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3enyvge4no.amp

I think what I've realised is that... people just don't realise.

We are saturated with media and much of it is filtered by algorithms. It is very easy to get a distorted picture, especially when Hamas are so adept at controlling the narrative to suit their ends.

I feel really sad for the way kind-hearted people are being manipulated. It's like watching an abusive relationship from afar.

What do you mean?

That's just nonsense.

Israel is carrying out a genocide in Gaza. At what point are you going to open your eyes and realise? How long will you choose to stay blind to it?

At what point will you accept that you are in a decreasing minority of people who refuse to see the truth?

Increasing minority, according to whom? What biased sources are we going to see. I will also answer your question, above, about those useful idiots. They are the usual ignorant rent a mob white saviours, who embarrass themselves by jumping on bandwagons, carrying the same uneducated passengers. In this sense, uneducated means devoid of any knowledge of the ME region, which extends beyond calling Israel genocidal maniacs. Elsewhere, somebody has just misunderstood Zionism. I've seen videos of the usual mob calling Jewish people Zionist c*s. Those are the people I referred to in the post you questioned.

Ok so I’m a strong Zionist and I think genocide is being committed in Gaza. Because I’m taking the word of respected global organisations who are saying it is. I am at the point where I no longer believe anything I see online in isolation so I can’t ’do my own research’.

However the issue I have with showing my support for Palestinians outwardly is that there seems to be zero distinction between wanting Palestinians to be fed, medically treated and for the military operations to stop, and then endorsing the full river-to-the-sea, antisemitic, ‘they should be free to form a Sharia state to terrorise Israel’ BS.

Ultimately my priority is the UK and our allies, as my children live here and I truly believe capitulating to any form of radical Islamism is wrong.

OK... 😂

The fact is that we are not party to any real information at all. Even those with access to military/antiterrorist intelligence have a limited picture.

Have you ever been closely involved in a news-reported event? I have, a few times. What was astonishing was how each event was reported in the media. The story bore little relation to the truth. And that was just trivial stuff. The stakes are much higher in war, and everyone knows that both side use propaganda to further their cause.

I have a feeling that this particular war will go down in history as the watershed moment when the influence of social media became vividly apparent.

OK, we enjoy flaunting our views on here and digging our teeth into each other. It's all futile.

I have a sneaking suspicion that behind the scenes, no one knows what to do about Gaza. The spoken words of condemnation do not match up with actions. I suspect behind doors, a lot of countries (obviously not the many ME countries that want to see Israel obliterated) are more or less saying "Rather you than me."

Of course, I have no idea! And neither do any of us.

What bothers me is things like seeing "pro-Palestinian" marches in our capital city that were organised on 7 October 2023. Coincidence? Really? Seeing UK citizens who have never paid a moment's attention to ME politics suddenly "well informed" about a chaotic history that even a specialist historian has trouble unravelling. Noticing just the other night that a lot of posters on the CITME forum have absolutely no concept of what radical Islam is - how it has poisoned Gaza, how it seeks to destroy Israel, how it literally seeks global domination (I know this sounds bonkers! but there we are...) Seeing chants of "Death to the IDF!" greeted with applause at Glastonbury, supposedly a peaceful music festival, FFS. Seeing our own citizens marching in processions just after 7 Oct, chanting "From the river to the sea!" and innocently believing (I hope) that there is nothing harmful meant by it.

Call me weird for thinking that something is very wrong here.